But by looking at your achievements I can see you don’t have a lot of raid experience. So I can understand why you don’t get why raiders need a carrot to chase in order to make raiding appealing. Raiding is not easy, and can be frustraing, but the feeling of progression/rewards makes all of that worth it.
Your argument is could be thrown at any aspect of the game. What is your favorite aspect of the game? Do you collect mounts or pet battle? Imagine if you are a transmog farmer and all the Tmogs are now available for a few gold from a vendor, why would they continue to farm old raids for Tmog? Why go through the effort if they just give you the reward for no trouble at all? Some might still grind the old raid content for Tmog but most will buy their sets and be done. This use to be an MMO RPG and the combination of fun content and good rewards is the baseline of a good RPG. You need to have both.
Obviously I’m not a raider, but raid tier has always seemed pretty stupid to me, sort of like legion legendaries. The whole if you don’t have this piece of gear or you don’t compete is a bad system that I don’t understand why players are so crazy about. I understand the class sepcific gear LOOKED cool. But making random drops mandatory for your character can’t feel that great I assume, the same way if you don’t have the correct azerite traits you won’t perform as well.
The fact is. The rewards are higher for the highest levels of raiding and PvP. If they could throw in some more mounts and free tmog options for raiders I could see that being more rewarding. Getting rid of class specific sets all together was just a lazy move. But offering tmog options for downing raid bosses would be a great addition for raiders I think, similar to how as you rank up in pvp you unlock the transmog options. It’s a shame they don’t have any class specific gear either which is something I would like to see change.
Heroic raiding gear is currently equal to random arena games at 2.1k cr world quests, warfronts and the box at the end of a M+10. This is the whole complaint of this thread because they feel the type of content they are doing is the hardest and they should be far superior to players that haven’t did what they did.
Yeah, these players are selfish and entittled. It kind of pisses me off that mythic raiders have this gear that is so good even compared to me at 382 ilvl in my max gear and tbh they suck at the game. You play with them in an island expedition, a dungeon or a bg they are terrible I slaughter them in dps interrupts CC’s dispels everything jk I don’t really care but man if I had that mythic raiding gear I wouldn’t be complaining that’s for sure.
Why would people learn to play when no matter how bad they are Blizzard will make a dungeon/raid difficulty for them and make the outdoor world so toothless that you can kill things while wearing no armor at max level? You can beat LFR g’huun like 2 hours after hitting max level. How successful would classic wow have been if you had the choice between a year long gearing process where you kill all the content up to KT multiple times vs having something like LFR where you can skip the entire expansions bosses and just kill the last boss a few hours after hitting max level?
LFR = bad game design and Blizzard thinks it just caters to more players instead of turning away millions. Hint: abandoning the gearing/learning process was a terrible idea.
You’re actually obsessed with the idea that people want to control you and sell you runs. You also think that is counteracted by doing LFR. How does a brain get so confused that it can possibly believe both of these things?
So ill clear that up. That isnt completely true nor is it a problem for the majority of raid teams. Yes some raid teams would prioritize who got what based on their ability and the stregnth of the set/spec. Those guilds knew what they were doing and therefor did not punish others for it.
For others like mine, it just came when it came. If the sets were truly strong we viewed it more as a nerf to the raid as we would become stronger through it. Never was it about competing nor were we punish another raid member for their bad RNG early in a raid. Eventually we all had our sets though because would would ensure that people got their 2/4 before we started handing out stat upgrades.Raids are the big bad demons people pretend they are.
A few gamechanging broken sets did exist, but for the most part their gave minor gains and smoothed out/altered a rotation. If you were a bad player before the set, you were bad with the set. It wasnt some magic switch
Not entirely true either. People dont want to feel superior as much as they want to feel like their investment was worth while. Why do more when less is an option? Yes the content is fun, but like many things in life fun only goes so far. At some point the challenges have to met with the proper rewards or else people will abandon them. Yes its a game and its all time wasted blah blah blah. Even when i game i want to maximize my time and be rewarded for my effort.
I only raid heroic and i dont think i deserve what high end M+ and mythic level raiders get. I feel they put forth more effort and deserve better rewards. But if the time comes that i want those rewards the option is there, and i am more than welcome to work towards it if i so choose.
Raid tier was important for a couple different reasons. The first reason is it provides quick and noticeable changes/increase to your DPS/Healing. It was also very important that the tier sets changed your rotation which was fun to play around with each raid making each tier unique and new. Stat sticks like we currently have don’t do anything but make a number in the bottom corner of my screen get slightly bigger and without third party addons, I wouldn’t even notice the effect it has on my toon.
I also don’t think you will find many mythic raiders who would be mad if top end PVPs have the same ilvl as someone with their cutting edge achievement. They are more angry about people who play solo content and keep up with them in item level. (one can also argue, if you are not doing mythic raiding/high end pvp, why do you even need a super high ilvl?)
Because the root of the argument is; this is (or use to be) an MMO RPG and working with others to complete fun and compelling content for good rewards is the backbone of any MMO RPG. Take any element of wow outside PVP and Raiding, take away or nerf the reward, and far less people will do it (How many people would be doing IE if they didn’t give AP). Mythic raiding is the biggest time commitment in the game (I don’t Pvp so I don’t know what the time commitment is for top end pvp is but I imagine is it similar) so they should have rewards that reflect that. This is not unique to wow, that is the foundation of every game in the genre.
Blizzard set the game up that way so it is blizzard that feels they are entitled to raid gear at the end of a tier as catchup. It is people like you that are acting entitled when you think blizzard should be making the game just to your liking and never mind about anyone else.
Must just be semantics. To me, “getting better” at a video game is not “improving myself.” It’s just getting better. I feel like “improving myself” involves more than just playing a video game better than I did before. So yeah, semantics.
My main objection to the OP was the implication that a game should force people to all get on the same high level of play that the OP considers acceptable. Maybe I misread the post, but I think WoW’s popularity has always been because it’s accessible to all, not just the gaming elite.
I think the whole raiding takes the most time is a misconception. People clear heroic uldir in a day if they want with an experienced raid leader. Others could try and pug and never do it. Same way other could try all they want but never get a high arena rating.
You barely get azerite armour cache from the wqs anymore but when I do I log onto all my toons n grab it so they can stop up some easy residum. Why should that stop for someone who raids logs on a few nights a week for a couple hours with their guild? Warfronts comesround every once and while and offer a piece of 370 or 385 gear. Which is available to a raider. So okay ya anyone who doesn’t raid or pvp or do high m+ shouldn’t have that one shot at a good item from a warfront box. The other stuff scales with their ilvl. I think you need 366 before you can get 370 and 351 before you can get a 355?
Complaining about this world gear is insane to me. Complaining about this to me sounds like I am more important than any player who can buy this game for the first time and make use of this gear.
Complaining about this sounds a lot to me like hey you want to play an alt? Well you better like doing normal and heroic dungeons and other really lame ways to get past that content you can’t even gear from doing pvp anymore. Pvp doesn’t even drop low ilvl gear anymore.
So if anyone at blizzard is reading this thread. Don’t listen to these morons about its to easy to get gear. These people barely even play the game, they log on a few nights of week to raid and log out.
You want people to gear and play alts. You want people to get to the max level content as fast as possible, those are the people who are going to get you legitiment feedback about the game and how to improve it because they actually play the game.
This raiding mentality of wanting to get rid of decent gear from less challenging content is kind of like when ffloyd May weather wins the championship then picks and chooses who he fights or who doesn’t fight. So they’ve climbed the ladder now they want to pull it up from under them. Good for Floyd mayweathers bank acount. Not for his potential oppentents.
Dumbing down catch up gear might be good for raiders (not really) but it sure isn’t not good for anyone else or your bank account. So my advice raiders is atleast come up with feedback to make raiding better, or more worth while and rewarding rather then trying to mess up another part of the game.
As I said in a previous post, I guess I’m just kind of triggered by the phrase “improve yourself.” This is my own personal hangup. I think “improving” oneself relates to your life as a whole, not a video game. You can “get better” at a game, but that’s not the same as “improving yourself.” So, yeah. That’s on me.
I 100% totally and fully agree that people should always try to do the best they can when playing with other folks. That means all those “mythic” folks who claim they just AFK LFR because it’s not worth their time to actually play are much lower in my esteem than someone who sucks at the game but is trying their best in LFR. (I fully believe that true mythic raiders–or even most players who do lower content–don’t AFK through anything they’ve queued for. Only a minority of hateful losers who like to complain all the time are the folks who do that.)
I mean your argument can be easily flipped around… Why do you think your entitled to raid gear without stepping into a raid? This is an MMO RPG and in MMO RPGs the whole game is suppose to be built around working together with others to receive compelling rewards. So why do the selfish people who don’t want to play with others deserve the same loot as people willing to play with others on the hardest difficulty? At least raiders have a legit excuse for needing that high ilvl. You can say Blizzard set up the game like this but has someone who has been raiding for over 11 years, the raiding community has never been in a worse spot. Raiders need a carrot to chase. They need a reason to stick around for a full 3 hours wiping on the same boss over and over. Those nights are terrible but once you get the boss and get that tier piece/trinket you wanted, it use to make it all worth it. Raiding guilds help build some of the best communities on the severs. If you remove the raiding guilds, the community aspect of wow will just be for exclusively for RPers and Pvpers making wow pretty much a single player game.
Why would people learn to play when no matter how bad they are Blizzard will make a dungeon/raid difficulty for them and make the outdoor world so toothless that you can kill things while wearing no armor at max level?
I can’t tell if the world is deadly or the world is not deadly. I see this and a ton of complaints that the scaling at 120 makes fresh max level characters feel way underpowered. I wish someone would tell me how it really is.
You can beat LFR g’huun like 2 hours after hitting max level.
So, you’re saying that the easiest form of raiding is easy?
How successful would classic wow have been if you had the choice between a year long gearing process where you kill all the content up to KT multiple times vs having something like LFR where you can skip the entire expansions bosses and just kill the last boss a few hours after hitting max level?
Classic WoW was going to be successful no matter what. WoW had the Warcraft name attached to it so no matter what they did it was going to be successful. They were also fortunate enough to change what people didn’t like about current MMOs and take parts that people did like.
As for your actual question, I would imagine that it would go over about as well as it does today.
LFR = bad game design and Blizzard thinks it just caters to more players instead of turning away millions. Hint: abandoning the gearing/learning process was a terrible idea.
I think you’re confusing what you don’t care for with actual bad game design. Bad game design is requiring a raid to have 4 priests in order to use Mind Control or requiring 8 geared tanks for just one boss.
I don’t understand why people can’t just let LFR’ers be in LFR. It wasn’t designed as an intro to raiding but as a way to get more people to see end game content that devs spent a lot of time making. Who cares what gear comes out of it? If you feel the reward from LFR is good enough to drop heroic raiding then go for it.
Catchup systems have been going on for many expansions now and have always had positive feedback I assume. From timeless isles, the forge and getting waking eccence for lego vendor. All of these things were great for the game. People got to try out alts or even just progress there character without raiding per say.
Mmorpg means a role playing game with massive amounts of players. I don’t remember slaying onyixa in runescape as a kid, was that not an mmorpg?
Yes warfront, emissary and assaults are all catch up methods. They catch you up to current content so you can actually play!
You’re whole oh we need large groups to kill dragons that’s what mmos are is too funny. Like nah bruh mmos are games you can level up a char make him powerful and unique to fit the character you want to play all while interacting with other players after the same mission. This guy says oh ya the selfish argument can be flipped around on you. Like nah bruh you have the exact same availability to the warfront. Another person might not want to raid. Or even maybe they can’t. So not only are they missing out on all the raid loot drops you want to take anything that they could get possibly away? Who sounds like the selfish one?
No, that is obviously true but the point I am making is that the easiest form of raiding invalidates the entire game. Any game that can be beaten in a few hours that has a monthly subscription made a terrible decision. Again, how successful would classic have been if you could kill KT a few hours after hitting max level with a raid of players who just hit max level? The game would have been dead on arrival.
When you can skip all of the intended progression that should take months to complete the games story you made a bad game. That’s all there is to it. Instead of getting to max level, getting pre raid best in slot, progressing through all of the raids multiple times, improving yourself as a player and finally getting to the last boss to kill him with a guild that you have been part of for probably > 1 year you just reach max level and Blizzard now says ‘you automatically win the game, come back next patch or expansion!’
A banana could make a better progression system than WoW has had since Cata.
I’m tired of entitled WQers and WFers thinking they deserve more gear than me. I AFK in town and that’s what I enjoy. Who has any right to tell me I don’t deserve raid gear? I pay my sub and my /time played is up there with the best of them.
Blizzard you know what to do, don’t cater to the hardcore WQers. It’s the afk casuals who are the majority of your subs and make this game go
But don’t say I don’t have raid experience, you’d be wrong about that. My Pally had a full tier 2 set in Vanilla. I raided in TBC and WotLK as a progression raider as well.
The reason I wanted you to say what it was that you had to do, is because you can’t just do that either. Those items are locked behind other things. You don’t hit level 120 and say ‘here I am, I want to run my 4 assaults’.
It creates a boring game. Why bother trying to improve and overcome challenges when the reward is given out regardless of what you do?
I’m not blaming any player for this just so we’re clear. This is all Blizzard. I am rewarding them by cancelling my sub. Do I think it’ll make a difference? Nope but I wont reward them for crap design with my money.
Another thread about I care about how others are playing the game?
Listen, join a Guild - Create your own friends… enjoy. You are not going to invite that scrub who is going to learn how to play anyways right? so who cares?
You aren’t going to see that guy if you don’t run casual content, assuming that you run them with Guild/friends.