Well, when I was doing Sepulcher, having CC available was invaluable. Adds on Anduin’s down phase? Without CC, that would have been hectic and painful.
Bring DKs. Grips man. Grips. Pile it up, AoE it down.
Says you and which is why you probably think that players who roll healers really just want to be dealing DPS so that they can get their cred on the meter.
I’m sorry, but this just sounds like someone who doesn’t have a clue what’s actually happened over the last 20 years of MMO design.
Players by and large have agreed that massive deviations from the holy trinity to include things like buffer, debuffers, and mezzers is NOT fun. These were always the least played roles in every MMO, because they are just not that enjoyable.
It’s not fun for your WHOLE JOB to be maintaining a debuff on a target. It’s not fun for your only job to be the CC guy. People would rather tank, heal, and dps while also having the ability to do those roles.
Says the victory condition : Death of said mob.
If the goal was putting the mob to sleep, then yes, people would enjoy casting Hibernate.
I mean… I did Eonar. Will say this much, after figuring out that M. Eonar was solable as a DPS, I kind of don’t want too many of those ‘weird’ fights coming back.
Now I’m having Immerseus flashbacks. And that one dragon in ICC… Oh no, the healer encounters are all coming back to me. Oh no, I don’t want to be a DPS soloing Castle Nathria later, there’s a healer fight in there.
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99 percent of the problems is that pug groups should not be efficient as it is in wow, and this has lead to expectations in pugging. This has done more damage than anything else. It makes the community seem unwelcoming. It makes people not way to try to get into group content, and we get threads talking about healers not dpsing.
In a pug settings. A healer can do whatever the heck they want, just like a dps can stand in fire or pull without tank. The convenience of group finder and the tools like Raider Io, have made pug groups into something it should never be.
That’s what I mean though when I say that things like CC are a tool to not lose. You NEED to have them and use them well… because not losing is a prerequisite for winning. But they don’t make you win. Only damage does that. Everything that isn’t damage has diminishing returns as once you have more of it than you need, it doesn’t actually help you. But there’s no such thing as “too much damage.” Sure there are times where it’s correct to sacrifice some amount of damage for some other utility that you need… but damage is the only kind of value where more of it is always beneficial in some way.
LCD players.
Meanwhile the rest of us who actually enjoyed diversity in game play were wishing that MMOs never gained in the popularity they did with the unwashed masses.
Ah, so you’re just an elitist. Gotcha.
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Mezzers weren’t popular because Mezzers couldn’t win without a Barbarian. The Barbarian could win on his own.
Because the winning condition is the mob having 0 HP. Mezzing alone couldn’t do that. An Axe to the head alone could.
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Someone take pity on a poor zoomer and explain what “mezzing” means?
I think both of you are right in a way, but also wrong. I think you both kinda arguing around each other.
Fun is subjective, but here let change up the view a second.
If Dungeons required CC, and take much longer to do. Do you trust Blizzard to get the risk and time investment vs reward right?
From how they treated world quest and basic designs of the game. I would not trust them at all.
So that is why players lean more toward wanting dungeons to be like diablo 3 rifts. Just blow it up and get done with it asap, because A) Blizzard designed it that way, and B) Time invested vs reward is bleh.
Am i wrong on this? I care less about progression of power, and I stay away from group content because they don’t feel rewarding for my time invested unlike other mmos I play.
That the encounters were poorly designed is neither here nor there.
A properly tuned and tricked out encounter design would prevent players from brute forcing a win with damage alone.
But Blizzard has just capitulated to the LCD player who can only comprehend the game when numbers burst all over their screen and they can ride on their party for not getting higher on the meter.
Think abilities like sleep, disorient, mind control.
Big CC class.
So basically modern WoW design.
You can’t brute force keys and dungeons with damage alone.
No it hasn’t. You just don’t play at high level enough.
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Basically what happened.
If you think that the mythic+ game is anything but a diablo 3 rift run at this point its because you are in denial.
There’s a problem with that strategy and that’s that every player is incentivized to do better in their role.
The better the DPS are at their role, the less beneficial it is to have more good healing.
The better healers are at their role… the less beneficial it is to have more good healing!
There’s no way to design an encounter where the win condition is that the enemy has 0 hp such that damage doesn’t have diminishing returns and everything else does. You can design an encounter such that you require a certain amount of other utility… but that utility stops being useful the moment you hit the required amount of it.
The tools are not perfect. I’ve seen 3k io players die 11 times in a +16. They are usually an ‘estimation’ of potential. Things like Warcraft logs have been used to discriminate, but they have also been used to improve oneself. A tool is only as useful as the one using it, be it for good, or for bad.
If a player does not wish to improve, it is unreasonable to expect other players to want to help them. Solo pugging KSM as an undergeared warlock was a pain, though I managed to get into communities that recognized that I was able to pull my weight to make the process easier.
There is a very, very low bar for entry in group content and it usually starts with the self. The more you wish to strive to improve and become better, the better you will eventually become, how fast that process is depends on one’s own capacity to learn and adapt. Groups want to help people who are capable of helping them and will generally frown upon people looking for free rides or a show a sense of entitlement as most people play the game to have fun and when you get to the Raiding and M+ Pugging communities, that fun generally revolves around completing an objective successfully.
One person saying that the group’s time doesn’t matter usually means that player is the one being toxic.
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Tell me you’ve never seen the inside of a key without being carried without telling me.
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