Sure there’s RNG, but you’re guaranteed the best gear in the game whether you time it or fail it. They’re not going to give you more. That’s not a reasonable thing to ask for.
Probably, as I said it would never happen, I just don’t like “you failed this so here, go play with a key that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what you are trying to learn.”
Not a huge deal, just if I fail I want to practice not failing, and giving me a lower key to a completely different dungeon does not do that.
Explain this to me. 5 people and 2 pieces drop. How many potential drops are there in a dungeon?
What about any of that says guaranteed? Even the vault has absolutely no guarantee except the ilvl you can expect.
Would be cool if we could use Valor to get a key we want! But, here’s to wishing…(Would make it so you could get key groups together to just farm valor for this purpose, too)
He is referring to vault which does not care if you time or not.
The vault has even more RNG from what I understand, so theres no guarantee with that either for “the best gear”.
The vault lol. It becomes less useful as the weeks go on, but you can’t help but to get serious upgrades there for a while. The end of dungeon drops are a consideration, but again, you get those win or lose. You’re not going to be able to keep your key on top of all that. No other system in the game rewards you for failure.
Stop and think. I did the dungeon. I killed every boss and even the designated amount of trash that Blizz requires. I dealt with whatever affixes were there. Is that failure?
Did you do it in the time allotted? I might be able to kick a field goal 30 minutes after the game is over. Do I get the win?
This is a good point, and another win for a consistent group. Trading gear, running dungeons that benefit other players, etc. I’ve been running with a MM hunter who’s been trying to get a DoS trinket for a while. I set my loot to Ret for him (to reduce the chance I get the hakkar tank trinket, which I already have) and we can share the loot.
You’re right about the loot quantity, but I think this is more an issue or concern with folks constantly pugging, which I’ve found myself in this season.
If I run a race and I’m not in first place, but I make it to the finish line did I finish the race or not?
I mean is it just an issue for PuG groups though? Shaman, druid, DK, hunter, and warrior run a key. Shaman and hunter may be able to share loot. DK and warrior may be able to share loot. However, theres no guarantee the two pieces are anything anyone wants (lot of potential loot that can drop, doesnt mean it’s going to be good loot though which is where the vault is supposed to come in).
Yes, organized groups have a lot of pros compared to purely PuG groups, and they should, but I dont think it makes the RNG better or worse.
Of course you finished, but finishing is a given in keys. I very seriously doubt that you’ve ever been a in key that just wasn’t possible to complete. You just couldn’t do it in time. If you came in last place in that race you ran, you don’t get anything for that.
You get the valor, the gear that can upgraded to ilvl 220, mythic level gear in your vault, and the lolanima whether you win or lose. How can you want more?
Yeah, agreed
I’m kinda in love with this idea. The opportunity to retry a key that was just over timer, it’d be a god send. It would allow coordinated groups to try risky strategies because if it fails, you still have a fallback. I wanna keep going, but I’ll stop here because I suspect it might begin to sound insincere.
I tend to think it would increase time-played metrics, too. Which would be good for Blizz.
It’d be so easy to implement too. Just have a key with 2 charges, a failure consumes one charge, 2 failures lowers the level. A single success raises the level. I see no way to abuse this, and it only broadens the strategies people could attempt without feeling bad about mistakes or slip ups.
Edit: The only thing I’d like to puzzle out is a way to intentionally lower the key level. Sometimes people just wanna do the 14 for vault, and resetting 4 times to drop it from 16 to 14 would be annoying.
Would just have to ensure loot only drops once per key not per attempt, and you only get vault credit per key completed, not per attempt. I can’t see a down-side or abuse of this. It would basically just allow people to practice.
Valor is useless without the achievements. We should probably not go there, but from where I am sitting it is not a reward. It is actually nothing to me.
I mean once again… Did I? Out of the 5 people was I the lucky one?
Only if you do a 14.
Slightly more of a reward than valor, but has absolutely nothing to do with progression.
Yeah, the charge concept is a really elegant way to include a risk to it, but that it doesn’t prohibit experimentation. I feel like it would be a great help to pugging overall but even more of a boon to consistent groups.
If you want to do key progression correctly, it’s going to take some work. You need to slowly level up all of your keys without letting any of them fall too far behind. It’s the only way to keep pushing if you’re going to pug.