The punishment is the wasted time on a key that would have taken forever. There isn’t enough punishment or reward that is going to keep someone in a forever key.
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Punishment sure, but not a deterrent. I just personally don’t see the point if it ultimately accomplishes nothing.
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I guess my main purpose was to (try to) prevent people from leaving keys haphazardly, while also not having a penalty that was too harsh. I seem to have forgotten that not everyone who leaves a key is doing so maliciously, though.
Even if they were it still won’t stop someone. If they want to leave they will leave and then just go do their dailies, or play an alt, or wash the dishes or… what they are not going to do is waste time. People (not directed at you) acting like people will just sit in a corner staring at the screen if they get a penalty and learn to never do it again aren’t thinking this through.
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I hate this, there have been a number of times my guild group has started a key, tried a new strategy and seen it fail. Our next move is to reset dungeon and restart, try again one level lower. People should never be locked into a key for any reason, its horrible.
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Who said after 3 times? Are you getting kicked that often? I’ll grant some trolls MIGHT do this, but in 15 years of this game I’ve been kicked ONCE when I didn’t deserve it. Besides something like that would easily be reportable too.
Yeah, that’s a fair point. I guess my logic was that it would prevent a single person from joining a group, crashing it, immediately joining another group, crashing it, repeat…
Thanks for talking through it with me; I see that it would be a rather fruitless penalty, as you had said. I don’t expect anyone to just “sit in the corner,” of course, but you’re right: a few world quests later, and they’d be back like nothing ever happened.
This is a very good example case of why my logic is flawed, I see. Thank you for pointing this out.
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Ok? So to troll people he now does an entire key with them giving them loot in the process? If you kick someone and they would have gotten loot it’s just mailed to them. That’s a lot of time invested just to troll someone. Now if you were a jerk and got kicked that’s on you.
I didn’t mean to make you feel like your idea was wrong/bad just offering an alternative thought process so I really appreciate you taking it as it was intended. 
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This is how brainstorming should be. Alternative thought processes avoid groupthink and shed new insight on ideas. Thanks for helping me see my idea in a new way 
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Not a problem!
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I feel bad too, damn. I didn’t mean to word my post that strongly!
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All good, bro!
Yeah, but I don’t think that really happens. That’s just the risk you take when you pug.
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A defeatist attitude if i’ve ever heard one.
And how is leavers trolling just the risk you take when you pug, and a group trolling you giving you deserter not?
I don’t get why there seem to be so many who focus on punishment. Why not remove key degrading from non-completion runs? Or provide for a one-time do-over of a key, assuming the final boss was not engaged?
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I think that’s a lot more reasonable. I’m not sure how they’d implement that to where it couldn’t be abused, but most of these complaints seem to stem from difficulty getting invited. Now it would certainly suck to spend a bit que’ing up and then get into a key that doesn’t finish, but timing keys is the best way to get invited in the future.
Forcing groups to stay together just doesn’t solve that problem. There’s just so many more players applying to keys than there are ones hosting them.
Yeah, I thought of that, too. I guess it gives people a free practice run up to the final boss? If you’re not engaging the final boss or completing the key, there’s no loot, so it’s not like there’s a benefit there. You still wouldn’t be able to replace anyone.
I’d rather see more forgiving systems developed rather than punishing ones implemented. But then again, I see no congruence in leaving a premade group vs leaving a randomized one, so I don’t sympathize with the sadism some have towards wanting to punish key leavers.
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Yeah, my argument was flawed. I think I missed the mark of what the real issue was.
This does seem like a better solution ^
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Ah, right. You didn’t specify how many times, though you explicitly said that it would be increasingly punishing. Others mentioned a three-offense system. That doesn’t defeat the truth that people would absolutely remove people from their keys, especially if it increases the likelihood that they obtain loot rather than a random. Even if it doesn’t benefit people, it gives an easy way to troll and harm people without actually having to put in any work, and the fact that kind of abuse exists within the system makes it far worse than the “problem” that you intend for it to “fix.”
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