Wasting a huge amount of time is detrimental to more than just the key holder, and everyone holds a key.
Yes, and people do judge the groups they join. But the leader is the leader for a reason. They are in charge.
Because most of the time that timer is EXTREMELY generous. I want to complete the key in time; if the key isn’t being timed, I’m not getting what I signed up for. I signed up for a timed key.
And this WILL be abused on all ends.
Had a hunter leave a dos +15 bc the tank didn’t pull a group to the urn fast enough. We didn’t wipe or get to the first boss yet. So ya there needs to be a punishment. Even if it’s small.
Blizzard does NOT CARE!!
Not even a little bit. If they did this issue would have been dealt with long time ago.
Think Raider IO should have an extra column that tracks toxic behaviour reported.
I understand why they haven’t implemented any system to do this. But at the same time there was literally a guy posting on reddit just recently about how he got kicked from a run and as a consequence, now deliberately joins groups just to immediately leave after the key starts and brick the run. He also posts messages as he does so to the group informing them that he will continue to do this until he is satisfied he has taken ‘vengeance’ on the original group that kicked him. Guy is a certified nutjob.
I have to wonder if that isn’t actionable. He’s admitting in chat that he’s intentionally ruining the key right at the beginning. I’m not exactly sure what constitutes griefing in this game. On the other hand, I sort of don’t believe that story is true. Anyone can set up a few screenshots.
That might mean something if the leader decided whether you stay or not, but they have no real power. Try again.
Only way you could be abused with this is if you’re a habitual leaver. Somehow that doesn’t bother me.
Let’s focus on other larger issues with the game in general first before we try to figure out a way to punish people who leave your groups which you have control over who you invite.
Let’s see:
The year is 2009. The dungeon is The Oculus. Someone immediately joins and starts yelling at people.
“KICK ME, KICK ME” he says. He refuses to leave because he’d be punished for leaving with a Deserter debuff. So he holds the entire dungeon hostage unless someone kicks him.
The difference? At least when you queued up for The Oculus you used an LFG tool to do so and it would quickly replenish your missing party members with people who queued up. But you can’t just do that in the middle of an M+ run, can you?
Now imagine if the guy holding your entire dungeon hostage is a tank or a healer.
See where I’m going with this?
right? how quickly people forget history.
this was a huge problem. not a figment of anyone’s imagination, and it’s why we have the system we have now.
How is that a problem? We kick him, he gets deserter. If he’s dropped enough dungeons, he’s banned for the week and loses his chest.
Cool.
So you’re the one pug a guild group needed to get their quota of five. Partway through the run they kick you with literally no warning, simply because they wanted to grief you.
And don’t you DARE say this will never happen. There are people like that that play this game. There are people like that everywhere.
Suddenly you can’t queue for M+ for an extended period of time because you just conveniently happened to join a group with some toxic folks in it.
Do you know what this would do? It would effectively kill off the M+ pug scene forever. Nobody would EVER want to take that sort of a gamble if that sort of a punishment exists because there is a very real chance that the lead could just troll the other players in the group and it would still count against them because they were kicked.
The solutions to the M+ leaver problem are bigger problems than the problem itself.
Without more details, any solution they propose will likely lead to more issues.
Your post is essentially pointless without providing a good structure for this to work without the multiple OBVIOUS pitfalls mentioned in every thread this arises in.
I thought of this to be truly evil: invite pug DPS, tell tank to save some percentage of trash for after the last boss, if they act like a jerk… get through the last boss and kick them, then the rest of us kill the last bit of trash. Cause the run isn’t done until last boss is dead AND the bar is filled.
With any luck, they’d get the debuff or whatever and no loot, if I were actually that kind of person.
You folks did it to yourselves with this. so deal.
Ahh yes the nonsense argument people always make.
Right now, any ONE person can grief the group simply by leaving.
After the change, the key holder is the only person who COULD grief you, and he’d have to ruin his key to do it. WOULD some people do this? Yes. Would it be an actual issue? No. Would it effect you at all if you don’t constantly leave keys? No.
Yes which is why groupfinder is dead and noone ever uses it. Oh wait.
So, somebody makes a minor mistake, or they are joining a key with a group of primarily friends. Say the Dungeon is Other Side, the boss does his cast, and people free the last Bwonsomdi clone.
The group leader kicks the 1/2 people that are not in their guild. These people not only get a deserter debuff from going through the entire dungeon, but, they are presumably removed entirely from the dungeon, getting no credit for clearing it, and no loot?
Or, the leader kicks somebody, giving them the debuff, and then afks. You are now down 2 players until the key expires, and you can’t leave?
This system begs to be abused. It quite simply causes more problems than it solves. It sucks if someone leaves your key, but the system that they have now is about as good as it can get.
He ruins nothing. He removes them when the dungeon is moments before ending.
And, how would this not be an issue? Not only are people rampantly penalizing other players, but after 3 times, those people get locked out of the content for a week? At this point, you are actively working to create a malicious system that nobody could possibly support, much less one that would actually be implemented.
I just thought of something. What if, when activating a dungeon on Mythic+ difficulty, each player in the group is given a “debuff” with a duration equal to that of the key timer. This debuff prevents them from entering any Mythic dungeon again during that timeframe.
The only ways to remove the debuff are the following:
A): Successful completion of the dungeon
B): A player is votekicked, in which the debuff instantly drops from all people involved.
C): A player leaves the party on their own; the leaving player will keep the debuff, and the remaining party members will have it dropped.
This way, if someone does choose to leave, the rest of the group can immediately hop back in LFG for a replacement. And if the group votekicks someone unfairly, that person is still free to hop into another group.
You can’t replace in M+.
I know, the run itself would still be lost unless the group can somehow 4-man it. Sadly I can’t think of a way to prevent that. But the person who left would not be able to do another Mythic+ run for another 30 minutes or so-- at least it would be some sort of punishment/deterrent.