Pelagos, WoW's First Transgender Character(Confirmed)

[Esimpure-whitemane]

@Antísthénés-tichondrius

the point is you are saying leftists aren’t doing that stuff but they are. that’s clearly the case.

I’m saying a broad, blanket term like, “leftists” is not appropriate when they’re not a hivemind. There are people on the left with different opinions from one another. And while I agree that specific monuments should be removed, I disagree with all monuments that they want removed being destroyed - and I certainly disagree with their illegal destruction of them.

secondly, they are illegally destroying and removing historical objects and also illegally rioting and looting left and right…that is the norm of what is going on.

They’re not illegally rioting, “left and right”. The news sensationalized it and mislead the public to make it seem like they were all rioters and looters. There are countless examples of massive, peaceful protests - and an unimaginable number of police brutality during that time.

And it’s still going. But it’s just not being put on the news anymore.

also protesting by illegally shutting down entire cities and blocking highways…again illegal.

Please point out to me where I said this was righteous and legal to do.

you’re not demanding that all statues of anyone who has ever done anything evil be removed. just a subsect of specific people you don’t like which shows the hypocrisy.

You think removing monuments idolizing traitors and monsters but not the founding fathers or past presidents is hypocritical?

Lol.

[Schlump-whitemane]

They’re advocating for Trans rights, and BLM, yet still have stuff like the Blitzchung issue popping up? You can’t say you support human rights for any division of people, while actively shutting down another’s rights. It’s just pure virtue signaling, which is all blizzard does anymore. They see a chance to add a racially diverse character or something like it to a game,and then use it as a chance to score more brownie points from the boot lickers who eat that stuff up.

[Esimpure-whitemane]

@Frostera-stormreaver

Heh, whatever you believe. The writing on the wall says something completely different.

Facebook and the trash filled sewage known as Twitter have no idea how inferior they are to the real world.

You really need to turn off the Fox News. Use more than one credible news source, especially more than just right-wing (or left-wing, for those that do it) news outlets.

[Esimpure-whitemane]

@Schlump-whitemane

They’re advocating for Trans rights, and BLM, yet still have stuff like the Blitzchung issue popping up? You can’t say you support human rights for any division of people, while actively shutting down another’s rights. It’s just pure virtue signaling, which is all blizzard does anymore. They see a chance to add a racially diverse character or something like it to a game,and then use it as a chance to score more brownie points from the boot lickers who eat that stuff up.

It’s virtue signaling. I wouldn’t be surprised if references to the gender identity of the NPC in question was removed in China.

[Schlump-whitemane]

Oh i don’t doubt they’d do that for a second. Ever since they saw how easy it was to get brownie points from adding diverse characters to overwatch, it’s all they do anymore.

[Kittredge-azjolnerub (Kittredge)]

@Schlump-whitemane

They’re advocating for Trans rights, and BLM, yet still have stuff like the Blitzchung issue popping up? You can’t say you support human rights for any division of people, while actively shutting down another’s rights. It’s just pure virtue signaling, which is all blizzard does anymore. They see a chance to add a racially diverse character or something like it to a game,and then use it as a chance to score more brownie points from the boot lickers who eat that stuff up.

It’s an interesting issue with the left-right paradigm. If the Right believes something, the left generally opposes it. If the left believes something, the right generally opposes it.

In a complex world of greys, it’s kind of terrible and fascinating to see how many people take hard stances on complex issues.

[Esimpure-whitemane]

@Schlump-whitemane

Oh i don’t doubt they’d do that for a second. Ever since they saw how easy it was to get brownie points from adding diverse characters to overwatch, it’s all they do anymore.

Yep. It’s pathetic. Blizzard doesn’t move for anything less than pure money anymore.

[Antísthénés-tichondrius]

we’re talking about blm here and you are literally advocating and defending a political movement that doesn’t exist, because the reality of what they have done is indefensible.

secondly in terms of illegally removing monuments, they have done that over and over again. that is a simple fact.

and in terms of the illegal rioting and looting…you can look at youtube videos of the carnage yourself.

also as far as the founding fathers go. they were themselves traitors to the crown…so.

and no i don’t think that historically relevant figures should be illegally removed by a self righteous group of hypocrites who want to erase history.

that logic is as flawed as the logic of those same “progressive” hypocrites who killed hundreds of thousands with sanctions in iraq and then millions afterwards with an invasion…but it’s ok because he was a bad guy right lol…

@Kittredge more like they don’t actually care about human rights. it’s just a facade to push whatever other agendas they want, or ignore issues that deserve to be looked at

[Esimpure-whitemane]

@Kittredge-azjolnerub

It’s an interesting issue with the left-right paradigm. If the Right believes something, the left generally opposes it. If the left believes something, the right generally opposes it.

In a complex world of greys, it’s kind of terrible and fascinating to see how many people take hard stances on complex issues.

It is definitely weird. I identify as left leaning, but obviously all things need to be taken individually. The war? Left leaning, I’m opposed. Health care? Left leaning, I’m for universal, single payer health care. Abortion? Left leaning, I’m pro-choice. Gay/trans/etc rights? Left leaning, I want them to have the same rights as I do.

Honestly… I don’t know of many things I am right leaning. I find being unwilling to accept change or adaptation and trying to use an old book to tell other people how to live is… odd.

I suppose if you think gun rights are right leaning, I’m all for people having guns… just with better gun control.

[Esimpure-whitemane]

@Antísthénés-tichondrius

we’re talking about blm here and you are literally advocating and defending a political movement that doesn’t exist, because the reality of what they have done is indefensible.

BLM isn’t the WBC. They don’t have a hierarchy nor do they have a single leader. Your dismissal of all the things they’re protesting because vigilantes broke the law is rather short sighted.

secondly in terms of illegally removing monuments, they have done that over and over again. that is a simple fact.

Did I say they didn’t do this? Did I say I supported it?

and in terms of the illegal rioting and looting…you can look at youtube videos of the carnage yourself.

Yeah, and you can also look at youtube videos of peaceful protests being violently disrupted by police, endless cases of human rights abuse and police brutality, and the failings of the leadership in protecting these people.

Turn off the Fox News.

also as far as the founding fathers go. they were themselves traitors to the crown…so.

Yeah, traitors to England - but obviously patriots to the US. Are you saying that America shouldn’t honour them?

and no i don’t think that historically relevant figures should be illegally removed by a self righteous group of hypocrites who want to erase history.

Please point out to me where I said that they should. Really, I’ll wait. Because all you’ve done this entire time is create strawman arguments and refuse to address a single point I’ve made.

@Kittredge more like they don’t actually care about human rights. it’s just a facade to push whatever other agendas they want

Oh, so you support police brutality?

[Rûth-hyjal]

@Sibyl-shadowsong

All I see is someone saying they “don’t care” while getting very flustered at the same time

This is unintentionally the most honest post I’ve ever seen. “All I see are two trigger words and assumptions about your state of mind.”

His post wasn’t anti-trans. Many people, both pro- and anti-trans, don’t care about the quality of the writing, so long as non-cishet characters are(n’t) present. Caelin stated he wouldn’t care if the story was completely cishet or set in a non-binary trans gay orgy house, so long as it had good characters and a compelling plot.

Yes, many transphobes try to hide their hate behind a veneer of “I only care about the story”, but that doesn’t mean everyone who doesn’t care about the alignment of the characters is such a person. You’re seeing transphobia where it doesn’t exist.

[Antísthénés-tichondrius]

you’re the one creating strawmen by depicting blm as a group that doesn’t exist in reality. that is perpetually the victim but not the instigator of violence which clearly isn’t the case.

you’re depicting it as a purely abstract ideological movement when in reality, the material evidence says a lot more about what they have done and what they believe.

simply saying “if it was bad, the people who did it weren’t real blm supporters” is meaningless. we are talking about protests and illegal actions taken where at the very least many blm supporters were present…so.

i mean protests and riots they were apart of have led to sections of whole cities being looted…

also you’re the one based on zero evidence saying the media representation is incorrect…and by the way i have seen 3rd party physical evidence of what they have done.

you are simply denying everything they have done.

secondly, the protests in hong kong had many examples of police brutality, including police literally shooting protesters.

no i don’t think people should have monuments removed because they are “traitors” period to authority figures or political entities.

if someone is historically relevant to a city or region, they monument should be allowed to stand. because it’s there to preserve the historical record.

also in term of blm…it’s a broad political movement ok. sure…yet we have tons of evidence of supporters of the movement being involved in illegally removing statues…so.

anyway, though i am not going to debate you anymore since you are just denying material facts about what the movement has done…according to all reputable figures, including media, 3rd party people who have shown videos of these places etc.

“it’s ok because even though tons of blm supporters were there and bad stuff happened, literally zero of the people doing the bad stuff were blm supporters, which i know because i am both very biased and also psychic. the media is wrong, citizens who live there are wrong etc”

like i said, done debating here

[Esimpure-whitemane]

@Antísthénés-tichondrius

like i said, done debating here

Your entire post can be summed up as, “I don’t understand nor do I care to try and understand”. So yeah, I’m done too.

At no point did I deny any facts about what some parts of the people who say they support the movement have done. I simply disagreed that it was the actions of the movement as a whole. Because it wasn’t.

[Antísthénés-tichondrius]

no i do understand. i am just trusting objective sources and material evidence…obviously.

rather than your biased version of “if they did something bad, they weren’t really members of the movement.”

that’s absurd and meaningless.

to say that the movement is responsible for those actions is still true since members participated in those events. obviously…

it’s like saying bolshevism wasn’t responsible for destroying russian historical monuments post revolution because not every single russian bolshevik was involved in their destruction.

secondly, blm is a marxist entity and declares itself as such…read up on their webpage so.

my comparison between their actions and those of the bolsheviks is not at all inaccurate

[Drameed-draktharon]

To reflect reality ? Wait don’t we play this game to escape all that ?

[Esimpure-whitemane]

@Antísthénés-tichondrius

to say that the movement is responsible for those actions is still true since members participated in those events. obviously…

Correct. But at the same time, those in the same movement did not support the actions of these people. It’s not a unified movement.

Also, the actions of these people do not at all affect the peaceful protests and the issues they’re protesting.

@Drameed-draktharon

To reflect reality ? Wait don’t we play this game to escape all that ?

You mean you don’t conjure fireballs in real life??

[Antísthénés-tichondrius]

the movement is responsible for the actions of its members, especially when many of its members engage in illegal behaviors, destruction of property etc.

secondly the movement itself is marxist, which is why in reality they support the destruction of historical monuments, whether related to the civil war or not.

also publicly disavowing illegal behavior is obviously the smart thing to do, that doesn’t mean much in reality in terms of people’s private thoughts or what the movement overall supports and believes though.

actions speak louder than words

[Nelfas-azshara]

Why exactly fictional fantasy game MUST reflect real life?

and tbh i do not care. g/s/b/t nobody g / a /sh/

[Esimpure-whitemane]

@Antísthénés-tichondrius

the movement is responsible for the actions of its members, especially when many of its members engage in illegal behaviors, destruction of property etc.

They don’t have a membership, or a unified hierarchy, or any of that. How are they in any way able to be responsible for the actions of someone on the other side of the country? Or in a different country entirely?

that doesn’t mean much in reality in terms of people’s private thoughts or what the movement overall supports and believes though.

Oooh, thought policing? I thought that was a right-wing conspiracy on the leftists! Interesting. Because apparently demanding the removal of qualified immunity and the defunding of the police, and crackdowns on police brutality is a bad thing.

This has been ongoing for well over a hundred years. It’s just starting to really come to a head - a lot like the Civil Rights era movement. Or would you say those who protested the inhuman treatment of blacks in the 60s were wrong?

[Pyromor-shandris (Pyromor)]

I don’t see the point in this topic thread at all.