I don’t believe I’ve done any name calling, myself. I do think there’s a bit too much of a double standard on how we’re supposed to reply to transphobic people. Like, they hurl a lot of hurtful stuff at us, but if we snap back we’re painted as the bad guys (this isn’t so much about what you said specifically, just more… patterns I see in general).
Also, while it’s in my interest and I WANT to, it’s not my job to prove that I deserve to be treated as human, y’know?? Sometimes, we just get tired and snap.
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And threatened with a ban.
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We really need to get on the same page here.
I was guessing by “real harm”, you were referring to physical danger.
Making something socially unacceptable will not change that, since violence isn’t socially acceptable.
Well, that hasn’t necessarily been true as of late.
I digress.
And yes! Just what I’ve been saying all along. Engage with those who are open to being challenged, and to Hell with the rest.
Disregard them, and their hate. Don’t give them the power to affect you. That power is yours alone to give.
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I just mean in general. I am activist myself hence I know that peoples mind can’t be changed by being antagonistic or hostile towards them.
It’s only thorough rational discussion.
Don’t put that up on a pedestal.
Truly horrific thoughts can be calmly expressed, and lead to people with a heart reacting strongly, and in some places that allows the horrific thoughts to be treated as more logical.
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Except that beating up on TG is still seen as sport in some places, even in the US.
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I think now’s a good time to look up ‘respectability politics’. They’re really harmful and it’s a LOT of the pushback we see to activism today.
It’s kind of the assumption that marginalized people have to be as perfect as possible to even have our voices considered, and acting any bit out of line, in the eyes of many, invalidates our humanity to them.
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i don’t disagree with anything you say here.
Sure people, all people, react emotionally at times.
As far as trans discussion goes, there is a greater burden to keep it together and keep the goal posts in sight.
The stakes are quite high.
Choose your rules of engagement carefully.
I am.
Because currently society gives a pass on those harms. By improving society, we can remove the safe space for the people doing the harm and make it harder for them to do what they do. But like any crime it will not solve it immediately.
The real harm also includes the pressure put on people by a society that does not accept their existence and makes their lives miserable. It may not be some bigot bashing heads, but it’s a very real harm that they have to try and live with and that causes a lot of damage as well.
Well aggressions always meets with aggression. I am saying it from my experience
Nobody wins in that.
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Because they really do believe we are inhuman.
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The problem is that people often overlook horrific aggression if it’s spoken of in cold and clinical terms.
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well…world is very complicated. Sometimes I too get frustrated 
(just learned how to blockquote omg)
Yep! A lot of people who engage in respectability politics are afraid of looking like they’re bigoted, though, so they’ll pretend to give us the benefit of the doubt (they may even believe they are), and then find any small reason to invalidate us in a way that a lot of centrists and center-liberals would agree with.
Of course, they may not believe it themselves, but they were likely going to invalidate us anyways. Because I truly believe bigotry doesn’t form because of peoples’ justifications behind it, I believe the bigotry forms first and then justifications are lazily layered on top. Idk, maybe that’s obvious and I’m stating the obvious (also I realize this can kinda sound condescending, it’s just something in general I’m adding to complete my thoughts, not assuming you don’t already know this!).
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Unfortunately, yes.
It breaks rule #1 of my two rules to live by.
- Don’t touch other people.
- Don’t touch other peoples’ stuff.
Id give <3’s to both of you, but blizz seems to think liking things should be something you can only do a bit, obviously liking something isnt in their ideal.
I can see that being true.
Is it worth the effort of going to those lengths to have the opportunity to bend someone’s ear?
I kinda like to argue, er, debate. Sometimes coaxing someone into even engaging is more difficult than the argument itself.
I mean, it’s less asking if it’s worth it to do so, and more is it worth it to NOT.
Too much is at stake to kind of brush past and ignore this, and if we have even a chance of changing peoples’ minds (OR! convincing people on the fence to believe in our humanity, because online discussions like this aren’t just replying to the people here, it’s writing for an audience), we kind of have to take that chance.
We’re running out of avenues to fight with, y’know? And staying quiet lets transphobic people know that their worldviews are normal. We can’t treat that like normal. The problem is, though, very few people who aren’t trans aren’t actively fighting for us. Even if they side with us and understand us, they don’t stand up for us- some feel it’s not their lane, but, it kind of is. If a transphobic person believes I’m not a human, they’re not gonna listen to anything I say. But they might listen if their fellow cis people dissent against their transphobia.
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My thought is that many who are… trans-sympathetic? For lack of better term. They just don’t want to stick their necks out in fear.
I spend my days around some of the most blue-collar workers you’ve ever seen. Trans discussion doesn’t pop up much, and it’s not very positive when it does, however, how this particular demographic speaks of homosexual men has changed quite a lot over the years.
What was formerly disgust almost exclusively, is now a total “do whatever you want” complete disregard.
And I think that’s positive.
Nobody should be seen as anything less than a human being who’s no worse or better than anyone else.
Yeah, I do believe this is why a lot of allies don’t speak up. However, they need to step up. I’m not blaming or condemning them, I’m just… Expecting better. Hoping for better. I mean, I get it. When you express a sympathetic opinion about a non-dominant group to the dominant-group, you get a bit alienated.
But feeling temporarily ousted is nothing compared to the treatment we get.
And if someone’s afraid of overstepping and messing up, cite us! A lot of trans people post educational resources about our group, so quoting us isn’t overstepping. If you think they’ll listen, send them videos to trans YouTubers like Kat Blaque, Jammidodgers, mmmmaybe ContraPoints (I know she’s had a few bad takes in the trans community but seems to be getting better), etc.
One way or another, there are ways to help us that we will appreciate greatly.