You can buy gear that other players have earnt for you. BoE’s dont come from a gold vendor, someone had to kill the thing that made it drop.
You can pay another player a gold amount to carry you through content to attain something. CE/Mythic raid items - you are paying for that others person time, not the reward.
If you could simply buy gold fow money then buy those items from a vendor and not require another players time, sure its full P2W. Until then there is no way to pay for an item/achievement with money.
Cosmetics do not give you an unfair advantage, so you are already wrong on the literal aspect of “winning”.
Do vendors sell mythic raid level gear?
Can you purchase something with gold bought from the token that gives you an unfair advantage over another player? That they cannot earn themselves?
What gear?
This mythic raid vendor must be new because I’ve never seen them.
Unless you mean pay an exorbitant amount of gold for a carry for rng drops to get funneled to you by players who are bis themselves.
But how are you “winning” exactly?
How you are getting an unfair advantage over someone else?
I’ve aotc’d every single xpac, and only bought one (wod because it was a dumpster fire and I was busy irl).
Someone who threw gold for a carry didn’t win out over me. I got my aotc. Heck I have most ksm as well. And those cost way more gold.
So… how are you winning exactly other than skipping time? They don’t have an unfair advantage over me. If anything, I beat them in ever aspect because I have the skill to do it.
They can’t buy gear higher than mine. They can’t buy skills higher than mine. You aren’t p2w. You are p2skip.
Why is that so hard to comprehend?
The actual definition of pay to win is purchasing something otherwise unobtainable through other means to have an advantage. How does gold give someone an advantage in an MMORPG that’s predominately PvE? How does buying a carry affect someone else in a PvE setting? What advantage is there? How is a level boost pay to win when leveling is painfully easy that most experienced alt levelers can hit 70 in a day. How are faction changes pay to win? Or race changes? How about transfers?
I explained that a person who was skill locked at the average persons progression rates, would in fact not have the same access to the same difficulties as everyone else. This is an absolute fact. You can’t magic your way into completing Mythic, but you can pay your way through it.
This is an assumption. You’re adding a specific mindset for hypothetical people that don’t really exist. It’s not really helpful or realistic.
Why are we adding more stipulations onto what P2W is? Now it has to be dropped by an enemy, you can’t simply purchase it from the AH? Why, because you realized that a person could literally use real world money to purchase end game loot? Oh, darn.
No, I explained what it is.
Why would you ever consider an “advantage” P2W? If a person completes a game and finishes it, and pays to do so, then with your logic they never paid to win because the game is over and they don’t really have an advantage over other players. BUT! you can use real world money to gain advantages over players that don’t, so, realistically WoW is Pay-2-Win, obviously.
If we’re talking about moving goal posts and making too broad a statement, the three of you are doing exactly that. I make a cogent point and you people respond with, “yeah, but what about in this instance?”
You aren’t competing with other players, you’re competing with the game and Blizzards design philosophies.
Because you can use that gold to basically do anything you want in WoW. How is gold not a strong component of P2W? In other games it’s rare gems, in WoW it’s gold.
So you’re saying I take the 200k a token will give me and go buy a full set of 556 gear? What about PvP gear? Can I buy PvP gear with gold? Can I buy ashes of al’ar? What about invincible’s reigns? How about a fully leveled toon, in 556 gear that can smash mythics by themselves?
You may be trolling but I’m having fun destroying your pathetic attempts at defining pay to win.
Edit: Can I use gold to buy friends, happiness and love in the real world?
If you’re talking about me, then this is a bad assumption. I am not pro P2W, I think it corrodes the fabric of the game, to some extent.
This isn’t true.
Gold is just gold. Gold is fine when farmable via any means in game. When we had a real life function, allowing players to turn real life currency into gold, then it because an issue.
I don’t know what current prices are, but I assume they’re higher than that. But, why does it have to be a full set of gear? Buying just one with real world money is technically P2W. But, there’s nothing stopping you from buying multiple tokens.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.
I’m not trolling and you haven’t destroyed anything. You people keep making bad arguments, that’s about it.
It is also a fact that you cannot pay money to reecieve those rewards without the players who are capable of doing so. You cannot get 20 players who all bought gold to then group up and attain CE - its well above their skill level.
Nothing about that end game loot gives an advanatge over someone who never spent gold tho - it just allows them to aquire it faster. P2Skip time investment not P2W.
You can turn real life money into in game rewards, this is a fact.
This is patently false.
You’re using real world money to buy in game currency? What about this don’t you understand? Token gold isn’t fabricated by Blizzard, it comes from other players. This discussion doesn’t change because you purchased gold directly from another player, but that is against the rules and would get your account banned.
You did.
“That would include limited time or exclusionary objects, items, titles etc.”
Literally encompasses everything, so as I said, way too broad.
…because pay to WIN? It’s literally in the name. Advantage… win… like?
Fortunately for me, unfortunately for you, wow never ends.
But that’s besides the point. You p2carry you through a raid, cool! You got the aotc!.. Now what?
A real player will keep going. Keep killing that same boss. Same with mythics. Most don’t stop at ksm. They keep pushing.
Someone who pays for carries, won’t progress beyond a certain point.
Regardless… What are you winning exactly? Titles? Mounts? COSMETICS?
We’ve said the same thing the entire thread. You are more than welcome to quote me a single time I’ve said something to move the ‘post’.
However, you are the one that has such a broad term of p2w, I don’t even know how you are managing to try and explain something that encompasses the entirety of the game.
You’re assuming that a carry for some gear is pay to win, proper pay to win is by having a full set of 556 gear. So yes it has to be a full set.
It definitely does pertain to the discussion, people like to say that money buys happiness, so can I buy friends? happiness? love? If you say I can that makes life pay to win doesn’t it?
You could also turn real life friendships into those same rewards. The money isnt the factor. The other players are the factor becausee without them no matter any amount of money you try to spend will get you the reward.
Lets go get AOTC new friend, through the means of GOLD.