Do people really believe WoW isn’t pay-to-win? It’s 2024, this discussion has been had for years now.
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What’s your definition of pay to win? I’d like a citation, a link and examples of the game being pay to win, meanwhile I’ll provided a citation, several links and examples of real pay to win.
I wish wow was p2w then the complainers would just quit and everything would be kosher
edit: in jest obviously, we don’t want anyone to quit, we need more people queuing both game modes lol
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What Warframe are you playing? They’re actually probably one of the more ethical f2p models. And I mean the prime access for the new prime variants are a bit much at $150, but other than the cosmetic it’s all available in game with a relatively reasonable grind
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I am guessing you don’t PvP? Winning is fairly easily defined there.
P2W in CoD.
Buying a weapon with increased damage and stats that provides me an advantage over other players, who didnt spend that money and arent able to earn that item via in game play.
Completely different from what some of you are considering P2W in wow.
Buying currency that allows me to trade to players in game, that will then help me have access to rewards that offer zero advantage over them, rewards that are attainable by every player. Access to rewards that still require other players to have earnt access to.
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You might have started with this, instead of vapid posturing.
You can’t use real life money to speed up grinds, obtain end game rewards, level faster… etc. etc? People that are skill locked in normal raiding difficulty, or lower PvP brackets, can’t use real life money to buy mythic rewards or high end PvP rewards?
WoW is pay to win.
I’ll just say this, go look at black desert online, the pinnacle of create a problem and sell the solution kind of game.
Edit: To add to this, people have spent thousands of dollars on BDO to avoid the worst the game has to offer for mechanics (namely the upgrade system) and they’re still not even in the best possible gear.
Edit 2: To further clarify the upgrade system, it works based on a system where you fail your upgrades the higher you go and the higher you go the harder it is to upgrade and they sell an item that guarantees your upgrade, the reason why people don’t ever get to max upgraded gear is because the goal posts keep moving why? Because the upgrade system rakes in cash like a fat kid shoving cake down his throat.
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cringe, out of touch, and ignorant take to the real definition. not addressing this but you’re welcome to believe it, friendo
I believe the truth, which is based on evidence given to us by Blizzard and player interactions in game and out.
You give yourself too much credit.
Considering we have actual mmo’s that are p2w.
What can you buy instore? Mounts? Pets? Over priced digital services?
Nothing that offers an unfair advantage over another player… Like say… increased upgrade rolls on items.
That is called pvp boosting and isn’t allowed by blizzard.
You can buy m+ carries, but those are VERY expensive in terms of gold.
Same with raid carries.
But what advantage would you get over someone else buy burning millions of gold? The amount of runs you’d need to be bis.
The win trading you’d need for pvp to get glad (then probably get banned for it)
You are burning gold for cosmetics. Unlike other games where you can straight up buy gear or progression from their shops.
So I bought a wod aotc carry way back when. I gave this guy 10k gold. Was told to sit quietly in a corner, on my hands.
I got my silly aotc achiev and my mount. What did I win at wow exactly?
Here is something I saw that perhaps may help gain perspective.
"Pay to win is any system where a player can purchase something that is not superficial or cosmetic.
I want this to be categorically broad because I believe that things like owning multiple accounts in some MMOs is a pay to win aspect if the accounts award a game play advantage that was perhaps not intended.
For example, owning multiple accounts in EVE improves your horizontal character progression by being able to do more things more quickly. This provides a player with multiple accounts an advantage over a player with just one.
Or in FFXI, having multiple accounts allows you to quickly earn more gil due to certain dungeons being on an hour lockout. By having say 3 accounts a player can reduce their down time to 0 instead of being stuck waiting on a timer to grind money."
No. You can buy a currency with money that allows you to trade to those who are capable of earning said rewards who at their discretion can carry you to attain them tho. Nothing about spending money actually allows you to attain them.
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Gold, which can buy everything.
So what?
Which you can buy with real world money.
You got the AotC, the thing you said you purchased.
That would include limited time or exclusionary objects, items, titles etc. But, that isn’t the entire definition of Pay-to-win, P2W is also purchasing easements, which you can buy in store or in game using real world money.
But, hypothetically, you wouldn’t have had access to that unless you spent that money.
You people need to think this through better, your arguments are terrible.
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Your definition of p2w is way too broad.
Currency =/= p2w
Especially if you can’t buy really anything with it other than carries.
If you could buy gear with the gold or gear with $$$, then I’d agree.
Basing p2w on anything purchasable with gold is silly.
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this is exactly why I said I won’t address it. it’s silly from the get go and not worth the time trying to persuade someone who’s moving goal posts
/shrug
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Nope. You cant buy a CE for gold, you can trade gold to those capable of carrying you so you can attain it sure. You could also earn the exact same gold via in game play - spending the moneey means nothing but your time saved.
My arguments are terrible. and yet you used ‘hypothetically’ as a means to argue that rewards wouldnt have been obtainable without money, yet completely refuse to even acknowledge the fact you could have earnt the same amount of gold with ingame play and no money transfer? You refuse to acknowledge that it still requires other players to carry you througyh the content.
Nothing you purchase for money allows you to overpower a reward - you still require other players to have invested time and effort (not money) into being able to attain said rewards.
Do you pay a mechanic to repair your car or do you pay the mechanic for the years of knowledge and time invested into learning how to repair your car?
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No, mine is more literal, as in the actual definition of the term.
So, if there were a currency that purchased multiple things in a game, it’d never be P2W? I’m not sure I’m following your point here, because this seems like a very bad, illogical argument.
You can buy gear with gold, which you can purchase with real world money… P2W.
The importance of Gold in WoW can’t be understated. People farm it to make a real life living. People use it to pay their WoW bills. People use it to buy carries and gear and transmogs and pets and mounts and titles and exclusionary items. Gold is incredibly important in WoW. … and it’s obtainable with real world money.
And yet, here you are.
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wait until you find out about wow tokens, man you’re gonna freak out
No, you would have had the same access to them as anyone else. You chose pay someone to do it for you instead of you putting in the effort required to earn it yourself.
And the funny part is, you buy it from people who already got it. So by definition, you didn’t “win”, you lost.
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