Nah, I ain’t paying that trash even if my life depended on it.
I mostly play heavy handed creature decks.
Black/Blue, Black/Green even Mono Black.
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Ahhh… fair enough, my natural enemy! 
I have been contemplating making a Red mono deck but building effective tribals requires a very niche set of cards to make it work effectively.
Plus you have to weigh how powerful or threatening your commander is. A Toxril for instance is always seen as a prime target.
This is WoW. The term “catch up” simply means getting power faster.
Ilvl is still in there regardless how you feel.
To accept this, is to accept the 535 p2w idea.
…That’s pretty much what Pay to Win ultimately means a lot of the time. Heck, some would go to call it “Time savers”. Side eyes ubisoft
To focus on the literal definition of it, is missing the point on why this phrase came to be in the first place.
By the comment you’ve given me then and the comment you’re giving me now telling me WoW isn’t ,i doubt you genuinely think Diablo Immoral is p2w to begin with.
It just seems like an overly complex way of defending WoW but shunning others for doing the same thing by moving goalposts around with “What advantages you’re gaining” imo.
It’s perfectly fine to say “WoW has MTX that allow you to gain certain advantages”.
Wut?
I’ve said countless times in this thread that if ANYTHING, wow is p2skip.
Immortal literally has systems to screw over ftp players.
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Listen, if i want to play a game with moving goal posts, i play Soccer.
You’re still gaining an advantage vs people who don’t pay for this and for much faster. Regardless of the cap of ilvl, and as i’ve said, it’s part of their marketing here. You can’t deny this will open the door to your idea here…
Which also fits under the P2W umbrella.
P2W isn’t a specific hole here, it’s an entire umbrella that can fit a variety of things. Even Timesaving or skipping.
Case and point, level boosts since MoP.
This will be the last time I make a response to this thread, there are catch up mechanics in the game. S4, all content offers higher ilvl gear, including timewalking and PvP if you so choose that path.
The selling of a bundle that lets new players or returning players to catch up skipping the need to level, complete the campaign up to the emerald dream as well as the renown grind is NOT pay to win but a means for new and returning players to catch up to their friends and family (if they play with family). It is a convenience that is entirely optional for literally everyone.
By your logic all the built in catch mechanics are bypassing the entire game.
Edit: To clarify the concept and definition of P2W, P2W is entirely defined by what’s being sold to give players an advantage in a PvP scenario where what is being sold is NOT obtainable through any normal means of gameplay. Such as selling a weapon that is statistically an ilvl 100000 item that you can’t get through normal gameplay but can only be purchased through real money.
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I know how to build decks but commander is just weird to me, I’ve built several very successful decks but in a standard format where the cards are more limited but you can have 4 of em… and only need 60-cards. It’s mostly my lack of card knowledge prior to like 2014 and how much of a stickler I am for playing a certain way… lol
good luck in your games tho.
Given the rather silly response at the end where where you deliberately miss the point and just go “Well all systems in game you don’t pay money for is p2W” with your “By your logic all the built in catch mechanics are bypassing the entire game.” as if it’s a gotcha… I’m not surprised you say this.
You practically described P2W, Timesavers, skips, etc.
…I don’t think we need your twisted subjective definition of P2W, when you’ve practically just described P2W already in the previous quote here without you even knowing it, so skip.
Someone found their buzzword.
You aren’t.
If you played the xpac, you’d be well capped by the time that released.
Thus catch up bundle or whatever.
It’s not an umbrella for a majority of video game enjoyers. It’s pretty specifically narrowed down to “unfair advantages”. Not anything you can throw a dart at that is purchasable with gold.
Out of all the things you could try and use as an example… you choose level boosting…
Not even remotely p2w rofl. It’s not a blizzard service… AND it cut down leveling time by such a small amount, it wasn’t worth it unless you had gold to literally flush down the drain.
By the standardized definition accepted by the broader gaming industry, anything that you can obtain through normal gameplay even IF the means is through an in game currency that everyone has access to and is used in a player made service such as level boosting or carries through dungeons is NOT pay to win, no matter how you try to spin it, define it or move your goal posts. I can right now farm 10 million gold through regular game play and get a guaranteed full set of 556 ilvl gear, or I can spend real money to alleviate my time of having to get said gold (which mind you is stupidly easy to get considering the BEST way to make gold is selling mats). This is baring the fact that for me to even get a full set of 556 ilvl gear, I have to get absurdly lucky on loot by myself and even with multiples of my class that I don’t get duplicates.
You also ignore the fact the majority of players are FILTHY casuals and have ACTUAL functioning lives with work and family being tied into it. If you even remotely have an inkling of thought that casuals shouldn’t have access to content that the 24/7 no life sweats have access to, then you are arguing in bad faith and have zero understanding of the current player base.
end points? No. Milestones and power creep, Yes to some extent. Most notably in PVP where you are more likely to get into higher skilled teams if your ratting is factory farmed by some dude in his basement selling arena or RBG runs.
Or when you have a high ratting in M+ and full mythic raid clears.
There is no ending, But there are milestones that open you up to a higher level of game play that you would otherwise not experience.
Yeh but no, pay to win is specifically when you can buy something that cannot be obtained in game that affects player power.
100% of everything that can be obtained in the store does nothing to player power, 100% of everything in game can be earned without paying a cent.
You might throw daddy’s credit card at your computer and get something 2 months before me, but that does not mean I won’t eventually get it. And given there is a limit on how much power we can obtain, eventually I will catch up to you and if my skill is better, I will get in front.
See with something like M+ rating or PVP rating, you can pay for someone or a team to carry you, but eventually there will be a limit that 1-2 or 4 players can get to with someone being carried, where if you ran a full PVP of 2/3 or M+ of 5 who were skilled they would eventually surpass you no matter what and at the end of the day all that money you spent to ‘win’ is nothing but a loss.
535 ilvl is what being used to deny any P2W allegations just to say… basically the same thing the game being accused of for anyways with “Oh it’s skipping or time skipping”, basicly missing the point of both of those things and how their both connected…
If it’s not moving the goal post, then it’s certainly moving the ball to the goalpost…
You would be blatantly lying.
Play casual, or speedrun?
If you’re going to tell me that context matters, then tell me how the peeps are suspose to be playing faster then somebody swiping their credit card to skip the leveling process entirely, and the inital gearing process and so on.
You’re not “Majority of video game enjoyers”.
Esp since people who do play video games, know it is an umbrella. Not just “Specific unfair advantages” like you subjectively think it is.
It’s still skipping.
As we’ve disgussed before, Timesavers or Skips fall under this category too.
Paying for Advantage is P2W regardless how you look at it is not.
Ahh yes, because blizzard didn’t make the Level boost. It came from EA. Of coarse. /s
To quote from you…
So you’re saying it has no point to exist then?
Yeah, let’s fix this to what you really mean.
P2W is an umbrella to many of the convenience MTX, such as time savers, skips, buying power outright, and ingame currency. And that umbrella will only be bigger as time goes on whether you wish to subjectively deny or not.
This stuff also appeals to casuals.
…Also, didn’t you just said…
No if anything it’s degenerate behavior by the company not the customer.
The customer is offer an official product or service they just are buying it. If you hate that exists it’s misplaced on the customer aim it at the business for offering it.
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I say it’s rather degenerative behavior for both company and customer here. Considering some would try to defend it as “Oh it’s not P2W, it’s something else!”. Despite the fact when it’s implemented in some other game, they call it P2W then.
You clearly haven’t been playing video games for long, 14 years ago we started getting free games, games largely taking after call of duty to give poor or unwilling payers a call of duty style game. Within those games we saw cash shops, cash shops that predominately featured weapons that you cannot get through any other method, these weapons are statistically better than anything you can get through normal means.
This kind of microtransaction progressively got worse and worse up until I’d say 5ish years ago when people started to get conservative with their money, hence why the most predominate kind of microtransaction found in nearly every multiplayer game is purely cosmetic, why? Cosmetics do not affect game play and people are FAR more willing to shell out money for GOOD cosmetics, myself included. These days finding a game that includes cash shops that provide statistical differences between players is rare but they do in fact exist. Black Desert Online being the more recentish MMORPG to feature P2W, do you know what kind of MMORPG it is? PvP, it is a PvP game first and foremost and PvE was an after thought. Every facet of the game pushed some kind of P2W microtransaction into your face, from cosmetics that give 2% extra stats to a literal game changing enhancement system designed to PUSH microtransactions onto the players by the way of SUCCESS chances at upgrading gear as well as basically permanently destroying your items if you fail all while selling you an item to revert that destruction.
PvP is what defines pay to win, PvE cannot and will never have pay to win means unless it is a direct give me the best stuff in the game right now for $200.