There are elitists in this game and this post shines a light on alot of them. It is really sad when folks have to divide themselves into “Dragonflying is the best and only flight mode” to make themselves feel superior. Anyone who has a different opinion is mocked and hurled vile insults.
The unbelievable part is Blizzard is oh so concerned about their ingame social behaviors and yet they continue to allow players with disabilities to be treated poorly by players posting here.
Allowing regular flight (like Blizzard said in the beginning of this expansion) without pathfinder is what needs to happen. Posters on here who were disrespectful, rude, hostile and vile need to be banned from these forums and possibly the game.
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We suffer together. I also hate crocs, but also secretly own a pair my nieces bought me last summer. They are my house shoes, since my dogs have destroyed every pair of flip flops and slippers I own.
The dogs either think they are too ugly to rip apart, or just refuse to destroy them out of spite.
Your dogs wouldnt be caught neutered with crocs. They have standards
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They’re already spayed. We don’t want anymore of their adorable demon puppies terrorizing the planet. I can only control so much chaos.
Be careful what you wish for, as if such is implemented it might be you that winds up banned. Then again, part of the human condition is being blind to ones own faults.
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I’ll be honest. I have not read every post in this thread. I have read a couple dozen. I have yet to see anyone say anything rude or hostile, let alone vile.
Other people’s opinions aren’t invalid because you disagree with them. It is not possible to cater to every specific want or need. Some of the expectations in this thread and in others is unrealistic.
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I find it quite humorous that they not only act out the behavior, then either defend it…or pretend it doesnt exist.
its literally no different than racism or phobic behavior…ie insulting people who are what they are, for what they are.
Literally comments in here calling lesser abled players lazy and worse.
No one CHOOSES to be handicapped or lesser abled than the majority of humanity just like I didnt CHOOSE for my skin to be brown.
Insulting something about me related to my melanin is racism, pure and simple.
Insulting something about the lesser abled person related to their handicap is the same sort of disgusting behavior.
But for some reason moderation isnt in here dealing with posts insulting those with handicaps like they would be in here fast as lightning if someone were insulting over race, etc.
Agreed.
Id think its not the same people moderating the game as are here, but if theyre going to talk tough about zero tolerance for the behavior, then this forum might need to be scrutinized a bit more.
You can be suspended for the most ridiculous of reasons in here, but then you can insult and demean someone who has a limitation they have no choice in the matter over and get away with it.
An insult against your race will get someone banned…but an insult against your disability is ignored.
I find that entirely duplicitous.
I suppose as a side note I need to AGAIN REMIND some that NO ONE IS ASKING FOR ANYTHING THAT DOESNT ALREADY EXIST!
they are asking for normal flight for NO MORE WORK than everyone else put into dragonriding…ie an hours worth of quests
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Bottom line normal flying is what? 20yrs old or something, they are being immature in putting a stupid requirement in…
Game is better with flying how dumb is ion? Quite. Shows he hates players too.
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When I try to fathom why PF is still being done with DF, the words “spite” and “petty” come to mind. Assuming the majority will have already met the requirements when it comes out, it certainly has no value for them. As for a small majority who will not have the requirements done, all it does it make them angry. I don’t see how anybody gets any fun out of it.
Given that PF is then probably not being done for the enjoyment of the players, that leads my original musings: “spite” and “petty”
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It’s a two way street I’m sorry to say. For every elitist saying things like “why cater to those with disabilities?” there is at least one other person on the opposite end that does a lot of what this entire thread is about and ironically what you’ve called out but you selectively chose to see it applied only in one direction. That being there’s a lot of people who are hinging on disabilities and every excuse under the sun, then demonizing anybody who even remotely suggests otherwise.
This leads me into my other point, people. Yeah, it’s very easy to sit back and lean on “Well you don’t live my life so you don’t know” and people just have to assume it’s the most crippling thing on your word alone. Except it really isn’t, rather than just blatantly dump traumas that I’ve been required to engage with in WoW, I’ll just leave this one example very simple. As a child I always had a deep fear of large bodies of water stemming from almost drowning in a lake, to this day at age 30 I can not swim and good luck getting me near anything deeper than a swimming pool. In High School as part of a teenage stupidity moment my friend group decided to try waterboarding my junior year, there’s a very compelling reason why I was the only one of us who dealt with it. It’s indescribable what happens to you and just how that screws you up. Showering was difficult to not freak out during.
I’ve done countless things in this game that involved me having to face that. I’ve dived into deep bodies of water where I couldn’t see the bottom because it was pitch black for aquatic form as a kid when it should have been the hardest to reconcile. I finished Vashj’ir because I wasn’t going to let something stupid prevent me from doing raids. I had to deal with it again and again, just take a guess at how I personally handled a lot of BFA’s themes. Guess what though, I still did the expansion, I still dived in those oceans for those stupid beads and even failed and had to redo my GIANT FRICKEN SQUID panic attack off the north of Voldun three separate times.
All I’m saying is there’s a give and take here. People demanding basic flying need to not be toxic and routinely demand they be catered to and that if it’s been a day without word on flying they start hyperventilating and screaming about how nobody cares about them, Blizzard only ever cares for the “elite” (which hardly ever encompasses the actual elite, it’s just basically a buzzword for "person who may be better than me that disagrees with me.) and start lashing out at players who even just tell them “Maybe try it for a bit?”
Similarly I agree there are people on the dragonriding side who need to be more sympathetic and dial down their vitriolic remarks. That being said though, my initial purpose of posting was to clarify there is toxicity on both sides and no matter how you personally choose to justify it, it’s equally as reprehensible. Similarly by behaving in this manner and having people say “It’s okay, they’re on the defense” or other pointless enablers of bad behavior it only just emboldens them to be even more aggressive, which alienates some more people and makes those already negative just double down.
And before this treads into the “Well they threw the first punch”, you really don’t want to go there. There are a lot of people from the “Downvote is actually a silence button” days who would tell you the hardline flying crowd has a LOT of deliberately antagonistic people that unfortunately that group is going to have to carry, whether some of the people from those days still make posts or not (a few do), and I’ve had more than my fair share of “Hey, what if we made a persistent pvp enabled zone with world pvp objectives and no flight, maybe with quests and a rep to grind?” posts that inevitably resulted in “UGH! RESTRICTING FLYING! GO FIGURE! YOU OLD BOOMERS JUST WANT TO SUCK THE FUN AWAY FROM EVERYBODY AND LOCK THINGS BEHIND GRINDS WE CAN’T DO BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU SEETHE THAT WE HAVE THINGS!”
And I’m just sitting there age 16 at my desk like “Dude, I just want Quel’danas back, what are you even on?”
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people are making this all too complicated. i am just asking the devs to let us have normal flying by just turning it on, so it doesnt take me till 2 expacs from now, to get it for free, like bfa flying. dragonriding is too frustrating and pain inducing for me and seems to be required to finish some of the pre-reqs for pathfinder.
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You are like the 6th person practically demanding medical information from strangers online. Do better, or better yet how about scrolling up and reading the several disabled people’s testimonials about their specific issues with it (mine included)
Sorry that disabled people exist and you were brought up thinking its your place to be the stazi “PAPERS PLEASE” It must stink making it to adulthood and thinking you have authority over people because they are less able than you
TLDR:
Drop the " i DOnt UnDeRsTanD thE ISsUE" act, ableist
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You sound like the only person who is upset that people with disabilities exist, as you keep apologizing for it.
That’s not something to be apologetic for
Previous pathfinders weren’t as awful imo. But yeah…
Personally, Dragon riding happened a bit too soon. Should have unlocked at level 67-68. Zones are impressive!
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I agree with most of what you’re saying, but the sentiment in these two paragraphs is ridiculous. Yes, there are a lot of people who face a struggle in their life (whether disability related or not) who refuse to make an honest attempt to overcome that shortcoming. People can do incredible things when they put their mind to it, and that incudes overcoming many disabilities. But humans as a species are lazy by design, and trying to overcome something especially when it comes to something as comparatively silly as playing a video game is oftentimes too much for many to even put forth a bit of effort. For those people, hearing an encouraging story of “you can do more than you think” might be a positive message. Hopefully those people can have people in their life that give those gentle nudges with compassion.
But your dismissive attitude toward anyone who doesn’t overcome a shortcoming is both offensive and completely absurd. Disabilities are unique as are the level of motivation people will feel to overcome them. It’s great to hear you were able to overcome your fear, but that doesn’t mean someone else who isn’t able to overcome a shortcoming is just not trying hard enough. It’s condescending to talk down to someone who may be struggling with something because you were able to overcome your struggling with enough perseverance. You will never know why someone else isn’t able to overcome their struggle to perform an activity, and trying to project yourself into their shoes is only going to breed contempt; you may think you’re helping but rarely do such things actually help.
Are there people exaggerating an inability to dragonride in hopes of getting legacy flying back due to it being easier? I have no doubt some are. But I have absolutely no way to determine, and honestly it’s none of my business. So long as they are respectful in their discussions, I can’t even get upset at someone who wants legacy flying solely because it’s easier and no disability comes into play at all, humans are lazy after all. But it’s utterly disgusting to see so many people dismiss anyone who claims to need an accommodation to do something as being whiny attention grabbers. I certainly don’t agree with what many people have said, and the accusations of people who may simply be ignorant being ableist are a bit much for the same reasons I’ve discussed for the other side. But that doesn’t justify how insensitive these two paragraphs are toward someone who may not be able to overcome their disability for dragonriding in ways that you were able to overcome for swimming in game.
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I personally dont think its even that. I think they are projecting personal issues in here that have nothing to do with the game, flight, etc.
when one is insulting and demeaning a lesser abled group over something that is coming anyway, simply because that group is asking to do no more work than they did for it, the venom has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
Misery loves company.
Misery projects misery.
pretty much like Dragonriding.
Run easy quests for a hour…you got dragonriding.
normal flight has been dragged out long enough. just turn it on
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No offense to you, but thats literally not the issue here.
This isnt about childhood traumas. This is about REAL motor skill issues. REAL motion sickness.
Issues that actually keep them from being able to do the dragonriding thing properly.
There is no give and take here. Literally.
Normal flight IS coming.
All they are asking for…for the 50th time again or so…is not to have to do a MONTHS worth of grinding for it like you and I DIDNT have to do for dragonriding.
the math is pretty simple and clear here.
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BOOM!
And there we have it folks.
The pure honesty of it.
Its NO ONES BUSINESS that someone else wants normal flight.
I dont care how many keep making the joke statement that it affects their game. It doesnt.
WE have had Dragonriding all this time. Day one of release. For an hours worth of EASY questing.
Normal fight IS coming.
All they want is to not do anything more, after MONTHS of waiting, then you did for dragonriding.
I deleted some of what I posted to him to just remove personal details of mine that arent relevant, but yeah…there isnt much comparison to a childhood water trauma or whatever to someone in here having crippling arthritis.
One can be overcome.
One pretty much cant.
Honestly, I thought we would get our mount, then work for a couple weeks gaining the glyphs over time and get a real feeling of ‘learning’ to ride our mount.
After realizing that wasnt the issue, I kinda hoped we had to get the glyphs for each character, which also wasnt the case.
I love DRing but had it been a little harder, I also wouldnt be too bent.
No one owes them anything.
BLIZZARD tells us to come HERE with our input.
They have NO authority on this forum demand or even ask for anything.
They have NO authority to make posts or threads telling us to ‘stop talking / complaining’.
when they buy controlling shares in the company, then they can tell others what to do or not do
Thats exactly what it is.
Theyve all seen, met or know someone who is lesser abled.
Guaranteed they dont have the same attitude when theyre face to face with someone who is and insult them like they do in here from behind their keyboard.
When the original claim for PF existing is something like ‘exploration’ and ‘danger’…then we got DRing day one and literally bypassed all that.
And then months and months have passed so its all been explored now…
Add the fact that the ONLY people actually affected by this incarnation of PF is literally the ones who have personal issues that make DRing harder than normal…
Yeah…‘spite’ and ‘petty’ would be on my list of descriptions here.
Ive run it 100 times trying to give him the benefit of doubt this time…but nothing else fits given the details
Feels like…lashing out at the holdout group for daring not to love his new shiny thing over their inability to enjoy DRing like we all have
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I honestly don’t see how much different dragon riding is… you press a button to move like normal flying… only you press it 2 or 3 times for height. You use your mouse to point you in the direction you need to go… just like normal flying only being pitched down a little. If you can normal fly, or move your character in combat and hit a simple spell rotation, I don’t see what dragon riding is such a barrier.
I get that people with disabilities probably can’t do races, but I’m guessing there a fair bit of content they have to pass on which is unfortunate.
I could not care less if normal flying is available, I’d like to have my herbing mount back tbh since I’m not into professions. I’d prefer not to have to do pathfinder.
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