The prune was done so weirdly too.
A lot of things could of just been made into passives or really should of just been a part of the kit baseline.
Like totemic recall for shammy should of just been baseline for all specs and not removed.
Voidswap shouldnt of ever been removed it was such a cool abilities with plent of counter play
People were upset players were using immunities to full heal people with it w no negative effect
Honestly miss it more as shadow than as disc or holy, was a wonderful and unique ability
I think ww is just really good right now, I know there was a double ww that almost beat a turbo. They hit so insanely hard during their cds, it’s hard to imagine mage is the only egregious dps in ww/mage
Well, they lost and that while WW is considered to be very strong into melees due to disarm, FoF Parry, etc. So its actually two of them weren’t capable of winning against a melee cleave!!
I also think that they just saw it as their best option to fight against F tier which is simply based around melees and one potential Ele only.
Its a big shout out to F tier though. I really enjoyed that series in meepmonk’s stream! Was fun to watch with the better team that won.
It definitely is very decent right now! But when you check out the solo shuffle ladders, which are a better indicator of spec strength than 3s which is based around comp strength, you’ll see that it isn’t outstanding. Decent, but not dominant or anything! Arms Warriors seems to be way more dominant in NA while its Mage/Hunter in EU.
I think WW is fine as it is. Even though it can sometimes feel a bit random and extreme bursty, the burst is not coming out of nowhere and is predictable. I know that Nasrajin will probably disagree here, but with its current design WW is only viable when it is bursty and can kill in short windows!
Lol Decent.. come on now. SP is decent, anything above tier B for dps is far over decent.
Current WW is not patch #2 affliction.. Current WW is really good.
Yep!
S1! Second best caster was priest, 3rd was aff lock.
Exactly this. I don’t believe that historical performance should ever be a metric for buffing or nerfing a class. However, it is frustrating that by nature of their toolkits, rogue and mage are never bad.
It’s not. WW is also insane and very much overtuned. There’s a reason winners in both regions used and even swapped to ww+mage OVER feral/rogue+mage.
I think there’s some truth to this. Specs like warrior, ret, mage, bm hunter etc that don’t have bad matchups and are able to be successful with most classes can definitely be better in shuffle, even if they’re not as strong in 3s and vice versa.
This is where we disagree. WW is absolutely overtuned IMO. It’s not the only spec, but it’s definitely punching above its weight class.
I think this is a pretty disingenuous misrepresentation.
I’ve always said that WW should have high damage; it’s one of two true melee dps classes that requires uptime for pressure and has the longest CDs on its CC relative to every other melee (other than DK, which also needs high damage for similar reasons).
However, I think it’s even more disingenuous to act like WW is “just fine” or “only viable when it can 1 shot”.
Okay, yeah. Lets discuss about the wording instead of the topic. Does that make sense to you? From my perspective, B tier is barely viable at higher ratings. But maybe I am just too focused onto the top 1%.
Its not imo. Like I said earlier, replace in MW+Mage+WW the WW with a Rogue, Feral, Demo and maybe even Arms and you get an equally strong comp or even stronger, right? As a matter of fact, I have even seen Mage+Boomy at 2300 mmr. 
Now replace the Mage with another class. Will you still get an equally strong comp? YOU WONT!!! So the issue aren’t the melees, even if you might think that way. The issue is the MAGE (and the MW of course, but they get their 5th nerf coming Tuesday)!!!
Bring mage on par with other wizards, and you will suddenly see a wield spread of mixed comps like Melee+Ele, Melee+Boomy, Melee+Shadow, etc. And that should be the ultimative goal. When some melee- and wizard cleaves can also compete, that is fine by me, but usually we should try to get as many mixed comps as possible into a decent state. Right now, Mage is blocking them from being successful!
That’s questionable. You are saying WW isn’t allowed to be good, but has to be bad or what is the “weight class” supposed to mean here?
You don’t like their bursty design? Okay, but now think about what would happen if they nerf it. WW won’t be viable anymore and that is a simple fact, even when you are trying to deny it!! WW players have seen that often enough now! You would need to reroll Arms or something to still be competitive! WW is NOT a niche spec, players who like the spec are also allowed to have fun!
With the latest tunings, its not outstanding, overtuned, or anything. Its simply fine! What makes it so strong right now is that a) it works good with a mage like usual when both are strong and b) it is good in killing mages because they take a lot of physical damage when a WW can reach them!
Do you still not see the real issue in the current balancing?
Fix mage and you fix everything!!
We’re just gonna have to disagree here because it feels like you can’t be unbiased about your spec.
I think that just about every player; most WW mains included, think that WW is one of if not the best melee dps in the game and on-par with or exceeding every other S tier melee.
But you are completely unbiased and objective about the spec you are scared of, right? 
Its quite obvious that you actually don’t want balance, but not be scared of WW burst anymore. And just for your information, I am not even playing WW that much right now. I dropped it last season when it felt horrible!
But I am objective enough to see, that their current spec design can’t be matched with your vision of game balance. Either their burst is strong enough to kill a light armor spec 60-0 in 2-3 globals, or they need to reroll! And when you deny that, you haven’t played the spec at higher ratings!
It certainly is, but being one of the best makes it automatically overtuned and broken? Are you for real now? Are Arms, Rogue, Feral and Enha also overtuned then? Are you a wizard cleave enjoyer? But its w/e, seems like you are not in the mood to just think about what I wrote earlier with my mage hint!
Yes. When one spec is picked ubiquitously as a counter and consistently beats out all other specs, it is overtuned relative to other specs. Ww is the best melee atm and mage is the best caster.
There are other specs that are good and need looking at, for both melee and range.
However, WW is consistently standing on top of the rest of them; even at the very highest level of play.
Sorry, but this is ridiculous! You might think that way, but you are not!!
WW+Mage is a certainly strong comp, probably one of the best comps right now, but you can’t set comp = spec strength!!! Isn’t that comon sense, even for you?
AGAIN: replace WW with a Rogue, Feral or Arms. Don’t you get around an equally strong comp?! YES you do. So how can it be the best melee, when it certainly can be replaced and the comp is still doing great?
Now do the same thing with Mage. Is there any wizard where you could do that? If not, you found the key part of the comp!!! And when you really don’t see that, you are not interested in real balance!
Not one of; the best comp. In both regions.
No, you dont, because ww was picked specifically to beat mage + all those other melee.
Nope! Ele is also up there, but mage still reigns supreme. However, when we look at other non-mage comps (as limited as they are), we see ret and enhances choosing WW as their mortal strike melee or choice.
I am. Which is why I’m pointing out what’s overtuned. Which includes WW. There are other specs too, like mage, rogue, bm hunter. Very strong specs like feral, ele/enh as well. But other specs being strong doesn’t mean that WW isn’t overtuned relative to the rest of them.
This is just childish.
And so is this. I’ve never said anything of the sort and you just look incredibly foolish trying to take petty jabs trying to defend an overtuned spec.
No he is, it’s very obvious to anyone other than yourself I guess that you are not even remotely trying to be even a little unbiased towards your spec (that you totally don’t play).
WWs are overtuned. Rogues are also overtuned. Frost mage is also overtuned relative to its survivability and utility. Feral works well with mage because it is another melee that has long instant stuns, it’s damage isn’t super comparable to WW as it has far less burst and therefore leaves more reaction time to deal with its damage. Warrior Mage is not even remotely close to WW mage right now, not sure why you’re even mentioning that. It’s okay, not awful, but not on the same level as WW mage, rogue mage or feral mage. WW is the best of any spec you listed by itself though aside from Rogue which again is also overtuned.
Enhance burst already got nerfed and it can’t set itself up nearly as often or as well as WW. Also, Enhance gets countered by disarm whereas WW does not, on top of the fact WW can set up its own burst much easier due to having a long instant physical stun. Why are we comparing the two?
And for what it’s worth, yes, the design behind “if this spec doesn’t do one shot damage it isn’t worth bringing” is plaguing melee/pvp in general right now. Devourer, Enhance and WW are all largely designed the same way where their kits don’t really matter enough to bring them for any reason other than their damage. It’s why even when Enhance is good I still push for specific changes or make requests for honor talents because I want the spec to be future proofed and not overly reliant on whimsical dev tuning
It’s hard not to look at this weeks awc and question why a team would run double WW if WW was on par with either melee ? Why double monk ? Why not war monk or feral monk ? Why not double outlaw. People could say those comp are anti synergistic but so is double WW in that regard but their output w CDs and utility kit still warranted running it
That is quite easy to answer, but it has other reasons than you might think!
We are talking about AWC, not normal ladder games. So you have a roster of 3-4 players, and each of them can effectively play 1-2 classes (some even only specs!) on a tournament level.
So what would you do when you have to play against another team in a best of 5 series? You look what their roster has for options and what your roster has for options that gives you the best chance of winning. That doesn’t have to be the most effective team in general and not even the most effective team against their comp, but the setup that your team gives the best chance of winning against the comps they can play.
So when you are up against a team that is mostly based around melee cleaves like Turbo, Kitty and maybe Thunder, you take that comp that gives your roster the best chance. You won’t pick a team that is maybe best on paper, but best of your roster that you still can play on a top level, because the team you are fighting against is playing also on a top level.
I don’t know what other options they might have had, but they decided that WW, which is usually good into melee cleaves and against ele shamans, be their best pick.
AND now, just ask yourself of how often you saw such a comp when you watched a top streamer playing 3s. I think I haven’t seen it a single time so far. Not once outside of that series. In no stream and also not when I played. Did you?
I guess that should answer your question of why they played double monk but also of how viable such a comp usually is on ladder, when you face several different comps.
The best comp in EU was obviously Outlaw+Mage+MW. In fact, only one team played mainly WW+Mage+MW and that were a team with 4 well known top players in EU with several AWC titles and even a Blizzcon champ. They ended up 2nd place.
But its like I said, comp strength unequals spec strenght and the issue is mage, not the melees. Nerf mage or buff the other wizards and you will see a lot more comp diversity. When you nerf WW, the won’t get more diversity, but less. Because everybody will just play RMX and FMX then!
reporting for duty
WW isnt over tuned, it takes 2 RSKs to kill you from 100% if it OP it would take only 1.
Duh
That is simply non sense. Your RSK crit during Zenith with Badge for currently 130k or something. Against a Resto Shaman with much armor more like 110k. So when your hp pool is 260k in arena, maybe try to not go in naked!