Patch 11.1 Undermine(d) Development Notes - Class Changes, Holy Priest and

Classes Priest
163

With the Oracle tree, on sanctify: LiD provides 380k more hps per cast per point. Lasting will give 506k hps per cast per pt, possibly more if the heal on renew bonus is applied (not sure the interaction). Im not sure what will overheal more, renew ticks can easily overheal more on sanctify targets, but I feel like serenity might have considerable more overheal with 40% strength… but also the larger Radius on sanctify is going to feel great.

At the end of the day I dont disagree with you at all, Oracle is very much an uphill climb, Im just trying to make something new work. It also makes me wonder if stacking haste would bet be the call for this, as PoM c/d and renew are both affected by haste. My mana bar might disagree with that.

11.1 is too far away

164

That’s an idea, but hopefully the goal will be one of what style of healing is most beneficial to the group. Lightweaver/Trail of Light/LitD is very good for focused and Lasting Words/Divine Image/Lasting Echos for aoe healing.

One thing I do know is that healing will be mana intensive going forward without Lightweaver. Hopefully the increased Apotheosis bonuses and more Holy Words will offset that.

165

With the big buffs to Serenity, Trail of light and also Power Word: Life being affected by some modifiers I feel Desperate Times loses some value.
It’s still a good talent, but I’m 100% willing to give up on it.

For the M+ I wanna test takes Lightwell as another cooldown to rotate since getting Divine Word is kinda hard without losing too much. And keeping Lightweaver pairing with Divine image for more front load normal healing.

I’m assuming weaving PoH + Trail of light might be a playstyle in m+ so I keep the PoH talents, but in case PoH ends up being useless I change them for PoM stuff as they will get some use during Divine hymn + New Gale of song

166

This is Oracle Specific, but I really want to test all these bonuses to PW: Life. If these 2 pointers are shimmed down to 1 pointers, I’d be able to pick up Prismatic Echoes and either Light of the Naaru, Divinity, or Divine Image.

167

IMHO I think Dispersing Lights is going to be superior to Trail of Light because it utilizes smart AI to prioritize low health targets (at least in the description). ToL has a tendency to overheal a lot (50%+).

Also, one thing to consider is that once our 4-piece goes Flash Heal and Heal are taking a 15-20% throughput nerf.

168

I’m thinking maybe something like that for mythic + keys . I do like Trail of light over dispersing light for M+ . The cleave heal comes more in handy there

169

And that’s what makes it 100% necessary for Premonition of Piety. You can check some of my heroic logs if you want, but Piety is a large chunk of it.

170

As a hoarder of buttons I want to push said buttons but there are some problems with being able to push all of the buttons right now.

Light of the Naaru guards Lightwell. I don’t need LotN with Holy Celerity. Desperate Times guards Divine Word, but then that blocks off Light in the Darkness which plays into it better (might be excessive because of the amp but still).

The only passive I care for is Answered Prayers and that’s because it works with Oracle and will work even more with Oracle with the new PoM talent.

It would just be nice for things to not be weighted so heavily to Divine Image.

171

I actually don’t think DI is really that strong anymore. It certainly was in DF, but post nerfs it’s a far cry from where it was. It’s more that the talents surrounding it are always so good that it’s your best 1 point choice. If you’ve got a potential build that goes around it though, I don’t think that’s super bad anymore. Especially when we lose our free cast tier set.

172

Right, that’s what I mean. It’s at the center and it’s a bit difficult to get around it to get what I want.

What I want is

  • Divine Word
  • Lightwell
  • Answered Prayers
  • Lightweaver

(In order of preference).
I can get it all but Lightwell right now (in M+). I’d love to not need Lightweaver, but I’m also a Prayer of Healing lover (been sitting by it’s side waiting for it to wake up from its coma for years; aside, this could get pretty morbid if we talk about Circle of Healing one bed over, someone came in and pulled the plug… very tragic) so it’s looking like those may have to be paired. It could really depend.

But I reeeeeeeally want that additional button.

173

When I look at Dispersing Lights it IMHO diminishes the value of PoH. There’s already a lot of talents that support your single target heals and casting Flash Heal / Heal in raid will pop off mini-CoHs every cast.

The overhealing on Dispersing Lights is going to be very tiny no more than 10% compared to Trail of Light which is around 40-50%. This is just for raid where there’s 20+ targets.

2 Likes
174

How? Those 6% do nothing against rough, incoming dmg. There is literally no scenario i´d give up the 35% from ToL. Even with Overheal it just does more and you got some oomph for triaging when you need it.

175

I ran the math on it.

Flash Heal: 341% spellpower
Spec Bonus: 85%
Class Tree Bonus: 15%

341 * 1.85 * 1.15=725% spellpower for Flash Heal. This would equate to 43.5% spellpower for each person getting healed.

725 * .06=43.5% spellpower distributed as healing from Dispersing Lights. If you’re running Archon and this is a Surge of Light Flash heal, it would be 943% spellpower Flash Heal and 56% spellpower from Dispersing Lights. But, let’s start talking about bonuses to Heal and Flash Heal.

Let’s look at a best case scenario for Heal.

Heal: 868.92% spellpower
Spec Bonus: -8% (why is this here?)
Everlasting Light: 10% bonus
Resonant Words: 40% bonus
Lightweaver: 25% bonus
Desperate Times: 20% Bonus
Divine Word: Serenity buff: 30% Bonus

868.92 * .92 * 1.1 * 1.4 * 1.25 * 1.2 * 1.3= ~2400% spellpower. If you’re running Oracle, you’re casting on yourself and getting another 30% bonus for ~3120% Spellpower.

Dispersing Lights would be 144% spellpower and 187% spellpower respectively on each target. Circle of Healing is 155% spellpower. Now, that’s for the first cast after which you’d likely lose Desperate Times and Resonant Words, but you’re still getting additional casts which could equal more Circle of Healing Casts in the same time period.

Let’s run some more math and assume you’re going to drop Resonant Words and Desperate Times after the first cast and use up all Lightweaver.

144%
85%
85%
85%

399% spellpower, so you’re essentially getting 1 Healing Chorus boosted Circle of Healing in 4 casts of Heal. Ok, I tried to make this look good and it’s lackluster. The benefit I suppose is that it’s automatic and you can keep casting Flash Heal and Heal and it would average over the course of a raid encounter more than Circle of Healing.

After all those buffs fall off, it would be non-impactful healing and would only pad the meters. I do not know currently if the healing done by this applies Echo of Light.

All in all, yeah it looks a bit more lackluster than anticipated.

Edit: There’s a huge assumption being made that these bonuses to Heal are multiplicative with each other and not additive. So, the numbers here are likely higher than in reality.

This is the talent tree used for these scenarios. Don’t judge the tree, just slapping random stuff to get the bonuses for heal.

1 Like
176

I’m a little confused here. What are we trying to show exactly? Dispersing light will provide more hps in raids than trail of light. I fully agree with that and the math would be looking at overhealing. You could compare dispersing to the overhealing on circle of healing. So the rough math for how comparison is .35*(1-overhealing%) from logs on trail of light vs .24*(1-overhealing% from logs on circle). As far as the triage goes, I would even argue it would more likely save a life over trail, (in raids, not in M+) as you are always providing heals to the lowest health ppl and I know I have seen raid members dotted down before.

177

Personally I think Dispersing Lights should be converted into a PoH talent. Just seems odd that you path down PoH talents and end up in Flash Heal talents.

Should be seeing the PTR up today or tomorrow imho.

1 Like
178

PoH should also act parallel with flash heal. Allowing use with surge of light and providing charges for heal in LW, and be buffed by 20% with 30% cast reduction (current LW buff) as baseline.

179

PTR is up and I logged on to test a few things for Holy before I got dc’d.

  • New tier set isn’t available for testing.

Prayer of Healing

  • PoH by default is a 2s cast and with Prayer Circle its a 1.5s cast. Lightweaver and Prayer Circle makes it a 1s cast.
  • PoH w/ Prayerful Litany does 730k healing per cast @ 110k mana cost. Lightweaver increases it to 912k.
  • In comparison: Heal is 633k @ 60k mana cost w/ no Lightweaver bonus. Flash Heal is 527k @ 90k mana cost.
  • Important Note: Flash Heal / Heal are losing about -20% throughput once we lose our current tier set.

PoH is very much in play now because with Lightweaver and Healing Chorus bringing PoH down to a 1s cast you can rapid chain fire off 4 PoH’s in a row after a damage event which would be like casting Circle of Healing 4 times in a row.

The only thing is with PoH is you need to very careful with your mana.

Holy Words + Apotheosis stuff

  • On current retail its 8 Flash Heals w/o tier set to reset Serenity. The tier set brings it down to 7. LoTN + tier brings it down to 6.
  • On the PTR w/ Holy Celerity (and no tier set) it takes 6 Flash Heal’s to reset Serenity (-2 casts then current).
  • In Apotheosis w/ Holy Celerity it’s 2.5 casts to reset Serenity. It will be 3 for the initial reset and then 2 for the next few words before becoming 3 again.
  • With 2 points in Light of the Naaru and Holy Celerity it’s 4.5-5 Flash Heals to reset Serenity.
  • In Apotheosis w/ 2 points in Light of the Naaru and Holy Celerity it’s 2 casts to reset Holy Word Serenity. This is very fast.
  • Eternal Sanctity is pretty strong. With PI and Halo I managed to extend it to 38s. With Answered Prayers you really don’t get more then an extra 3s off of it.
  • Divinity does not trigger from Answered Prayers: only when casting Apotheosis.
  • Light in the Darkness makes Holy Word Serenity heal for 1.4 million (up from 1 million) and Holy Word Sanctify to 2 million (up from 1.6 million).
  • The radius increase on Sanctify is very noticeable.
  • With 2 points in LoTN it takes 7 Smites or Holy Fires to reset Chastise.

Holy Word’s by default reset 2 casts shorter outside of Apotheosis. In my testing I was very surprised at how strong Light of the Naaru feels now because you can chain reset your Holy Words very fast. It’s 4.5-5 Flash Heals and a new Serenity outside of Apotheosis and 2 casts in Apotheosis.

If you go 2 points in LoTN and 2 in Light in the Darkness its a really strong wombo combo. You’ll be able to put out significantly more single target hps then you can currently.

Lastly, Answered Prayers does not feel like a requirement if you go 2 points into LoTN. That is a plus.

I think this might be the best raid build imho:

This build just focuses on raw Holy Word output.

Other tests

  • Empowered Renew and Prismatic Echoes aren’t working atm (no increase to Renew’s healing). This limits my ability to properly test Last Words.
  • Gale of Songs w/ Oracle doesn’t make PWS with each PoM cast during Divine Hymn.
5 Likes
180

I was trying to see how good Dispersing Lights would actually be in baseline and best case scenarios. As it stands, it’s not going to be good for burst or high sustained aoe damage, but it looks like it could have uses in raid encounters.

I was trying to get a feel for the numbers on Dispersing Light. Baseline, it’s roughly 4 casts of Flash Heal to get the equivalent of 1 Circle of Healing before any bonuses, so there will be massive amounts of Dispersing Light healing available. It just won’t have the power hitting aoe healing that people are looking for.

1 Like
181

After my testing I’m having an issue being able to justify actually taking Dispersing Lights and Resonant Words for raid. 2 points in LoTN w/ Light in the Darkness just feels like it’d be a much bigger overall hps increase.

It’s the difference between adding an extra 200-300k to Flash Heal or Heal, versus being able to cast more 1.4 million Serenity or 2 million Sanctify spells with shorter cooldowns, while also extending Apotheosis for longer durations.

182

Some Disc PTR testing:

Penance/Contrition/Twinsight (Oracle)

  • Contrition does proc on free penance bolts from Oracle Twinsight.
  • Contrition cannot crit, so does not get the benefit of Divine Aegis - however the penance bolts can (and do).
  • Twinsight from Oracle seems to fire 3 bolts at one injured target. I never saw it change target between bolts - it’s honestly probably better this way.
  • Uppies does not proc Twinsight. Wasn’t expecting it to, but good to try.
  • Twinsight does not count as a second penance cast - so won’t double proc void summoner or anything.
  • A very big one - Twinsight stacks weal and woe, as it does count as extra bolts
    • This is kinda crazy. We get a free full weal and woe on every penance fire even without harsh discipline. This means huge shields all the time. Also does make the question of what to cast during Insight a bit more interesting. It might be better to Penance > Smite > Penance > Smite > Penance > Smite now for AoE.
    • For reference - in my 625 gear, with the Smite buffs, my Smite was hitting about 300k non-crit each cast after a penance. PW:S shielded 2 mil.

Evangelism

  • Initial heal basically a huge spellpower heal that heals everyone with Atonement and divides the heal by # of targets. So a 2.5 mil Evangelism to 1 target is 2.5 mil. A 2.5 mil evangelism to 5 targets is 500k each.
  • Evangelism initial heal CAN CRIT.
    • Evangelism crit will also proc Divine Aegis (I don’t think this is intended though).
    • This is not an all or nothing crit. One target can crit while another target does not get a crit.
1 Like