I ran some prelim. numbers in excel, taking all of the buffs from the skills.
Fully buffed PoH rivals Flash heal on hps and hpm. It needs to keep its buffs and be used as an alternate to flash heal, not heal (i.e. increase heal by 25% reduce cast by 30%, have it generate lightweaver heal buffs, and proc off surge of light).
Lightwell heals for the equivalent of 1.5 serenity casts (1.7 casts in oracle with improved renew) and for 2min c/d doesn’t seem worth it whatsoever.
Playing with oracle, I do think this this build may just work.
Prayer of Mending is a powerhouse again, if PoM PW:S 2 allies at a time, its going to get out of hand, with all buffs it will heal for 3.07 mil on avg with my current gear (this is including PWS + %chance to drop renew + buffed renew heal… NOT including the empowered renew).
If Assured Safety applies Shields on PoM targets in Hymn, then Seraphic Crescendo will outperform reducing it by a minute, HPS wise. I think this is going to be a build choice based on when you need CDs.
Thats my take, I’m determined to make this work, stamping my name on it.
Assured Safety only procs on actual cast. It didn’t work with Salv either.
It’s also likely it does not PW:S 2 allies at a time, as the talent reads “an additional 2 stacks is placed on an ally.” But this one’s harder to predict. My guess is it won’t, because it matches hymn/salv’s wording, currently but it MIGHT.
I’m waiting for the evidence showing the 8% nerf on top of the changes won’t be necessary with how much power we’ll lose with the new tier set vs current.
The 8% nerf has more to do with 2 minute Hymns, Holy Celerity, and Eternal Sanctity imho. In raid were guaranteed 1 extra Hymn cast on most boss fights now and Eternal Sanctity will let you extend Apotheosis to 30s+.
Longer duration Apotheosis and 2.5 less casts to reset a Holy Word outside of Apotheosis just means we’re generating a lot more Holy Words then before.
Holy has never been #1 on hps in any raid tier and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Were just stacked heavily with raid util and there’s always going to be one Priest in any raid.
I wanted to double check the math on that. With Holy Celerity, they nerfed Apotheosis HW Cooldown reduction from 300% to 200%. We are also losing the 2pc bonus.
Live:
6 second base
10% increase from 2pc, 10% increase from 1/2 Light of the Naaru
1+300% increase=4
6 * 1.2 * 4=28.8 Seconds off holy word cooldown per cast. Roughly 2 casts for a 60 second cooldown Holy Word when factoring GCD
PTR
6 second base
10% increase from 1/2 Light of the Naaru
1+200% increase=3
6 * 1.1 * 3=19.8 Seconds off Holy word cooldown per cast. Roughly 3 casts for a 45 or 60 second Holy Word with Holy Celerity. It’s 21.6 Seconds with 2/2 Light of the Naaru.
We’ve essentially been micronerfed with Holy Celerity being available at least in terms of Holy Word availability. Yes, Voices of Harmony is higher, but you’ll be spamming your highest CDR abilities during apotheosis windows, not those spells.
Depending on tuning, 2/2 LotN and 2/2 Light in the Darkness will be required for all builds. Holy Celerity and/or Miracle Worker should likely be made baseline. But, we’ll see when it hits PTR>
I don’t get how they can think Light in the Darkness is a reasonable talent “choice”. Who would not take it? It’s a bit weaker in raids but it still seems indispensable. Meanwhile Desperate Times will probably be used by nobody moving forward, which sucks for people that do pvp.
Prismatic Echos is nerfed from 12% to 10% and probably not worth taking now even with the +30% to renew because renew sucks and empowered renew sucks even more.
So basically, we are losing talents (Prismatic Echos and Desperate Times) that are easy to pick up now, because there is so many mandatory talents to pick up that are needed more.
Thing is I really like Desperate times because it synergizes so well with Oracle, Piety, and Power Word: Life. It’s partly why I think some of those 2 point talents need to be 1 point. The multiplicative healing bonuses are essential for big echos and topping up quickly for Piety.
Without our tier set and LOTN its 8 casts to reset Serenity w/ Flash Heal. The tier set makes it 7. 2 points in LOTN gets it close to 6.
Holy Celerity w/o the tier set or any talents is 5.5-6 casts to reset a Holy Word. Apotheosis is still going to take 2.5-3 casts to reset a Holy Word even at 200%. More points in LoTN makes it better, but it’s a matter if you can even budget for it now.
Where were making things up is with the new Voice of Harmony. In our current raid build nobody takes that talent so you’re penalized for casting PoM/CoH (especially in Apotheosis). Now with that talent you’re getting an extra 20s cdr to Serenity that didn’t exist before.
Halo will also cdr Sanctify so it’s a question if it works on the back-and-forth pulses of Halo. If it does then you’ll get some pretty fast Sanctify resets because the optimal way to use Apotheosis in raid is in combination with Halo to double-dip the SoL procs.
It’d be easy to extend Apotheosis to a 30s+ duration, but it’s more of a question if there’s an actual use for it. There might be nothing to heal after the first 10-15s of Apotheosis so it’d better to run Divinity instead.
Haste may end up being a more desirable stat for Holy because we’ve basically been Crit/Mastery for years. The main benefit would be to get more casts it to get a longer Apotheosis duration.
Well yes of course. Desperate Times is amazing for pvp but how would you ever pick it up? You won’t. The Divine Hymn change basically nerfs our aoe while opening up a pvp talent.
I’m kinda glad you brought that up because with 1.5 second additions to Apotheosis duration, if you have no haste then it’s 0 net gain as you will not change the 1.5 second GCD. You’d need significant haste or instant casts to make good use of the increased duration.
Edit: There can be some tech with the Archon Hero Talent and pausing Apotheosis outside of combat and just building/spending to start the fight with a huge duration Apotheosis.
I think the math is a bit off here. 45 seconds / 6 CDR = 7.25
45 seconds / (6 * 1.3) = 5.76 but that’s factoring in the current 2 set.
45 seconds / (6 * 1.2) = 6.25
45 seconds / (6 * 1.1) = 6.82
With this type of math, you generally round up since there aren’t any partial casts.
I’m sure it is. Going to be more than a 5% nerf not being able to take it now, easily. On top of the 8% baseline nerfs. lovely
All so they can have us spam PoH now, which will remain almost useless in PVP. Idk seems like pvp side of things got the worst side of it. I’ll take a free pvp talent slot opening up but eh
Light in the darkness is def too strong and needs need to be halved in power, hopefully they give us the other half in baseline.,or a 15/25 thing. It almost forces you to take the middle end talents since you’re pushing on it.
I’ve uploaded my graphs, this is using oracle buffs and pretty much all buffs stacked (no 60% empowered renew because i dont know how it acts yet i think its just a cast, otherwise every spell that can drop a renew will be stronger).
Note this is is obviously not perfect and just gives a point in time reference using my current stats (it will multiply crit and verse and mastery and take into acct haste). There are obviously many points that have interactions that i didnt use… if theyre not permanent.
I typically do this every season / expansion, and look into the HPS and HPS/Mana.
This is why I see PoM godly again (for oracle)
Finally, im sure i have a dozen math errors here plz dont nit pick
Light in the Darkness is a 7-8% overall hps increase in raid when you factor in all the new changes. It’s just flat out mandatory imho.
Lasting Words isn’t as strong and is roughly equal to an extra +10% healing to Serenity and +20% to Sanctify (assuming Empowered Renew doesn’t work with it). This talent only reaches peak potential if both Prismatic Echoes + Empowered Renew interact with it and it’d be just as strong as Light in the Darkness.
Then you have talents like Divine Image which is a passive +5% hps increase. Lightwell is probably going to be around the same 5-6% overall hps contribution as well.
Lightweaver is going to drop in value with the loss of the current tier set bonus and wouldn’t be any better then the other end tree talents.
Ultimately with the current tree: the best build is going to boil down to which one gives you the most passive hps bonuses.