well also cuz they just are weak, but not so much anymore.
i am curious about the Renew stuff too cuz they bothered to mention playstyles for it in the patch notes, but removed 2 talents that place Renew on people and nerfed uptime for Oracle. Renew ticks for so little and I am okay with that cuz it has a secondary job of being a Renewed Faith activator but it really is weak. Its hard enough to get some of the talents that are really good I dont know if it’ll be possible to take any of the Renew ones. I hope lasting words applies Renew first so holy words, the meat of our healing, gets a 6% bonus. seems kind of backwards design on that if not
If Empowered Renew buffs Benediction, Lightwell, and Lasting Words Renews by +60% then it’s actually pretty strong just as a passive. If it doesn’t then they need to rework the talent.
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PoH still looks ridiculously weak and may only be used when I have 4 charges of LW and I just click it to use a charge to top up /snipe heal light damage. I don’t usually heal like this, so I am looking to try different builds now. If I have the mana to make oracle work I want to try it in raid. It just depends on how many holy words we’re getting out for the passive Renew healing bonus.
PoH won’t do that much more healing then a cast of Heal, but has the benefit of utilizing smart AI so it’ll do less actual overhealing. When you’re competing with other healers people can get topped off before you finish your cast of Heal.
Holy Word generation overall is going to be a lot higher because of Holy Celerity, Voice of Harmony is more accessible and works on more abilities, and you can extend the duration of Apotheosis.
I ran some numbers and assuming you keep Apotheosis up for 35s you can maintain a 30-35% uptime in a 5-6 minute fight (15% higher then currently possible). That alone is the potential for 20+ more Holy Words a fight and when you add in that it’ll take 2.5 less casts to reset a Holy Word without Apo… it’s yeah…
Holy Word generation is potentially double what it is now and when you factor in Light in the Darkness they’ll be a huge part of our overall hps.
This is what I’m thinking. First draft. I wanna see if I can go off meta build
The bottom of the holy tree is so difficult to figure out. I wanted answered prayers and say your prayers but feel like those middle pts are stronger and wasn’t trying to go for lightwell, but is so much more accessible to grab at that stage. If u have any ideas lmk
This build would push a lot more passive renew heal and benefit off the 6% heal on renew targets.
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Ok made another
This feels so bad losing 40% on Holy Words. Stopping now I’m just getting upset and losing confidence in the build 
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As someone who raids Oracle, the trick to oracle is pumping single target heals and using Premonition of Piety. You’re also going to want to stack what feels like too much mastery because the entire point is to get overhealing to spread from Piety.
Something like this would be more ideal for Oracle in 11.1
Right, thx. I’m attempting to take advantage of oracles superior mending/renew talents to make a different build work with 11.1 talents. Oracles current build style is not the way I’ll enjoy playing and could not compete with archon. However going all in on a strengthened mending and renew tree is an unknown. As more mending procs means more apoth procs. But as my builds show losing out on holy word power absolutely sucks. I Think it has a chance to work if light in the darkness becomes baseline. The excessive holy words we have now also means more divine image procs. I can’t see foregoing that talent on any build now.
I think if you compared Desperate Times and Divine Word right now to Divine Image, you’d like Divine Word far more when you can get that boost on demand for Piety and the stacking bonuses to Heal. The increased Holy Word output might nudge Divine Image back to the forefront on the PTR.
My whole build attempt is off lasting words bonus in attempt to blanket renew the raid.
Also I’m not worried about any more bonuses to piety. Between lower hymn cd and the renew procs, the triage off it is good enough Id rather strengthen my healing not on piety (again my playstyle).
Also I am quite confident on trail of light being the M+ choice and the new talent node choice being the raid choice. Trail of light has really high overheal and smart heal in raid will be quite consistent.
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New voice of harmony sounds really good with archon if replicated Halos affect the cdr too, which will end up killing oracle for holy
I’ll have to test that out once the PTR is up.
Archon is already getting stronger regardless because of Holy Celerity and the double dip on both Holy words from SoL procs.
Another thing I’m curious about is the new Gale of Songs that creates PoMs on people while you cast Hymn. I’m wondering if Oracle’s Assured Safety would spam PWS’s on the whole group while you channel Hymn. This could be Holy’s version of Rapture.
Oracle has a new talent to hit another with a 2 PoM charges when cast, so there’s a chance we can get double shields there too. When the CD is up can probably double cast PoM hit a few heals and double cast PoM again.
As long as blizz doesnt really buff to the skies the PoH at least on 5 man content, holy in keys will be either bad gameplay whackamole but can time keys or it will be just bad overall like it is now.
They Need to buff PoH to actually heal in 5 man content. Please no repeat of season 1. Holy was beyond dreadful
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The irony with Holy is that is that it’s actually the strongest it’s been in a long time in M+, but it’s still lagging behind compared to Disc. Disc has better damage output, better passive group healing, and far more utility.
Holy has very strong single target heals and 3-4 healing cooldowns to rotate, but outside of Halo we don’t have great group AOE healing. A buffed up PoH isn’t going to fix this issue because Halo is the proper way to do the passive healing because it pulses for 15s while letting you free cast.
They can make Halo last longer in M+ or simply give us another tool that functions similar. The patch though is addressing a few of the issues mainly with Disc being bashed with nerfs and also general overhauls to Holy that streamlines our healing.
Ultimately the biggest struggle on Holy is when the AOE damage pulses out aggressively. You have Flash Heal and a dream and it’s pretty difficult to keep up with the group healing compared to Disc who can use Mind Blast, Mindbender, and double Radiance and Harsh Discipline Penance to raw burst through everything. CoT is 3x easier to do as Disc then Holy for example.
Holy isn’t going to be meta anytime soon unless they fix the utility issue though.
Also, I find it ironic I timed all +12s as Holy, and I’m still rank 51. I just did all +13s as Disc and now I’m doing +14s and I’m rank 500.
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I suppose that was the price to pay for having it more acessible now + invuln.
Getting invites is harder than AOE healing this season.
That’s kind of the issue. Disc is the FOTM so it’s 10x easier to get into higher keys then Holy.
Holy just feels like it’d run into a wall around +14-15 on most the keys though. +14s don’t feel noticeably harder then +12s though because there’s still stupid amounts of leeway with the timers.
I think it does, otherwise it’s useless. But also if it does, it’s still a really, really strange talent design. It’s like ‘hey we’re going to make your passive renews better in exchange for having a cooldown on it now!’ but it’s ignoring the fact that renew is such a bad spell you don’t even want to use it in movement currently. Like holy nova will do more healing most the time even without rhapsody stacks because of mastery. So there’s really no downside to it, it’s just a question of how much healing passive renews do and if it’s worth buffing that. For 1 point when lasting words exists? It probably is.
If Empowered Renew + Prismatic Echoes stack then it’d make your full duration Renew casts do about 60% of what a Flash Heal does. It doesn’t sound like much, but once you factor in Lasting Words and Benediction it’s a lot of extra passive healing from the Renews and Holy Mending.
This build here gets all the passive healing talents and will probably be the wombo build if the tree launched right now (assuming Empowered Renew effects all the Renew talents).
I haven’t even sat and tried to think of any M+ builds. It’s going to be a looooot of experimentation.