The entire bottom of the talent tree is unselectable lol
Not sure what you mean? Are you talking about the 2 pointers? Because they’re worse in what they gate in current live. You can realistically have a 4 capstone build now. I wish we had less, but it’s still an improvement, and the top/middle part of the tree is a HUGE improvement.
It is a bit odd they even mentioned Renew builds, cuz Renew heals for literally nothing and they removed 2 talents that would apply it ‘for free’. They buffed Lightwell which is whatever, added a new talent that you probably will never take cuz of its effect and position in the tree, and then nerfed Renew duration for Oracle. Holy Mending also heals for literally nothing, a 30% buff won’t change anything especially on a CONDITIONAL heal. But all of that doesn’t matter cuz they’re finally making changes to PoH and raid healing. Holy should be fine on the cooldown front with more Apoth interactions and a potential 2min Hymn thats also faster. Now they can have sustained AoE, especially if we are allowed Resonate Words and use that with Lightweaver PoH, could be some juicy casts.
But I still have an issue with the bottom of the tree, theres too many goodies there. 2-4 of those talents should get moved up the tree cuz most builds take a couple filler talents just to hit 20/30. I’d MUCH rather Miracle Worker or Holy Celerity than Holy Mending. But as it stands it is really rough trying to get the capstones. Like straight up it feels like you’re griefing by going for Answered Prayers, which feels like it should be the case with the Apoth centric tier and buffs coming. Feels really bad leaving Light in the Darkness at 1/2, maybe that or Desperate Times should be a 1 node.
This is a lot of words to say you voluntarily refused to use one of the cornerstone talents of your class.
I chose to use other talents instead.
Talents are a choice that we must make as players and we should feel that we’re not forced to choose one talent over another. If a talent choice exists and one is a ‘must-have’ by 100% of players than it’s not really a choice at all.
The new design is fine, but absolutely needs a buff. A 40% baseline buff (32% if you account for the 8% overall nerf) isn’t going to do anything.
If it goes live without another buff, even if it’s a buff to how much bonus healing lightweaver gives POH, I’d honestly be really surprised.
I personally couldn’t stand the lightweaver cleave healing either. Since I don’t run mythic raid, I didn’t feel the need to run lightweaver and could keep up with the holy priests that use lightweaver in heroic palace. I have been basically playing the same way as I did in late DF, though using apotheosis instead of salv on some flights. It is a lot more mana intensive than lightweaver, but still manageable. Since I’ve mostly been pugging, lightwell is not wasted.
Lightweaver is only relevant this raid tier because of the tier set bonus. Once the 4 piece goes away the talents power drops a lot and a lot of the other end tree talents become more viable.
Do you mean relevant this raid tier as in right now in Palace or are you speaking about it being relevant in the upcoming patch?
In the upcoming patch, to me, it seems like these changes are pushing us strongly into playing this popping Apotheosis and using Heal and Prayer of Healing. Even without the current tier set bonus I think we’re also going to be pushed pretty hard into choosing Lightweaver. I mean, we have to or else we’re not going to keep up with their healing after it’s balanced!
I think the mental load is going to be uncomfortable and I dread trying to keep track of my Apotheosis cooldown and my Lightweaver stacks and ensuring that I have a charge of Serenity else I end up casting a 2.5 second long spell that’s going to be worthless in it’s output.
There’s no choice anymore–Humbug!
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I’m referring to our S1 tier set bonus because it puts a lot of extra power into LW Heal which baseline makes that talent stronger then Lightwell and Divine Word.
Next patch our single target healing power is shifting back into our Holy Words because of Holy Celerity, Light in the Darkness, and being able to extend Apotheosis. Our Holy Words will be the bulk of our healing and they’re going to reset a lot faster. It’s anywhere from 33-50% more overall Holy Words
This change makes Lightweaver a lot weaker because it’ll go from being 8-10% of our effective healing to 5% or so. Lasting words may end up being one of our strongest talents.
Also, PoH may not do that much more effective healing to warrant using Lightweaver.
It all just depends on if they overhaul the mess of the bottom of the tree
The biggest weakness of Prayer of Healing is that it doesn’t smart heal. Prayer of Healing will heal the target and the allies closest to the target, regardless of their health.
PoH is getting smart healing in 11.1 though.
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It’s pseudo smart healing - it’s any injured targets, rather than the most injured targets.
Still a notable improvement though.
Yeah, I realize that - there’s very few cases of true smart healing in the game though. CoH didn’t have it either.
Probably only Chain Heal is left, most of everything else is just injured target nowadays.
I’m right there with you. I’m incredibly upset about losing CoH and Salvation. Salvation is one of my favorite healing CDs in the game! So many BGs have I saved Teamfights with that spell; burst aoe healing with Salvation, HW:Sanctify, CoH, and then PoH spamming. Relying on a kickable channel is very concerning for Holy as a BG healer…
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The problem with Salv is that its scaling is incredibly poor this expansion because Renew does roughly -60% less healing then a cast of Flash Heal when in previous expansions Renew did just as much or more then a cast of Flash Heal. All the potential healing of Salv instead got pumped into Archon Halo.
The other issue is that our Holy Word generation has been tuned around Salv resetting in 4-5 minutes. Since DF S3 a Holy Word CDRs Salv by -15s instead of -30s and it’s been kind of a limiting factor in regards to our healing output.
So with this raid tier on Mythic most of us have been using Apotheosis instead of Salv. The reason is because when you use Apo w/ Archon Halo you generate a lot of Holy Words due to the 4 SoL procs and you can also cast heals while moving around. Apo overall just feels like a much more powerful cooldown.
We net gain a lot with losing Salv though. Divine Hymn will be a 2 minute CDR, Apo will be way stronger w/ being able to extend it to a 30s+ duration, and it takes 2.5 less casts to reset your Holy Words w/ Holy Celerity. Most of our power is going to shift into our Holy Words which also makes us more mana efficient.
thats why you run the uppies spell or the on demand spirit of redemption. puts you out of harms way to get the full channel off. and the cooldowns all line up
i havent played since Legion so it kills me that Holy Words, the like main premise of Holy, have been so weak thus far. Like hello, spec design, are you there? The 25% buff a while back, and some of the new talents are pushing back into that flow so I am happy about that. So much power, cleave, and crit put into ‘filler’ spells and then Holy Words felt like wet noodles
Holy Words feel weak because Lightweaver Heal w/ our current 4-piece does almost as much healing as Holy Word Serenity. Post update our Holy Words w/ Light in the Darkness will do almost 3mil a cast.
The consequence of losing our current 4-piece and having more power in Holy Word Serenity is that Flash Heal is going to feel like a wet noodle outside of Resonant Word procs. So for 4-5 casts Flash Heal will do 750-800k and then Holy Word Serenity is closer to 3mil.
Also, I’m curious about Empowered Renew because it might possibly interact with Benediction, Lightwell, and Lasting Words. Renew talents in the past did work on these talents.