But this new update is literally giving as AoE burst in M+ lol. At least in theory it does, we still need to see how numbers work but on paper it gives more ways to AoE heals
Only thing I think has big issues is the bottom part of the spec tree.
I think I’d call this a soft rework. Keeps holy as it is but gives it options within the existing kit to AOE heal. The numbers can be tweaked, and I assume they will be, and the talent tree needs more work as well. I’ll reserve judgement until then.
It forces a lightweaver build, doesn’t keep it as is.
I thought we had been forced into lightweaver all season?
Where are people finding the new talent tree to mess around with? I’m probably too dumb to navigate wowhead
I’m talking about the core design of the spec. Holy words, filler spells etc.
I saw that was released and have been playing with it. But, my comment was to the person above and how this next season they feel forced to play lightweaver like it was something new. I thought we already were forced lol.
There was no build without Lightweaver, what are you talking about?
The problem atm is you can’t take Lightweaver, Divine Image, and Answered Prayers in the new tree. You just don’t have enough points.
With how they overhauled PoH they want us to use Lightweaver to maximize its healing output.
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For M+ I got to Lightweaver, Divine image and Lightwell. Without losing any valuable talent.
The problem is when I try to make a raid build. Getting Answ prayers, Lasting words and Lightweaver is just impossible.
Answ prayers feels impossible to get in any way
It’s just head scratching how well done the top and middle of the tree is compared to the bottom. I can pick every talent I like on the top + middle and still have 3 points left over just to spend on extra stuff. You can get all the dps talents in a raid build easy as well.
Then you get to the bottom and it’s like whelp I got 10 points to spend and 3 of them automatically have to go into Miracle Worker, Holy Celerity, and Eternal Sanctity. I get 7 points to spend so I put 3 into getting Answered Prayers and all I can get on the left-side is Lightweaver and Lightwell.
I lose out on Light int the Darkness, Divine Image, and Prismatic Echo’s which all combined is a +10% passive hps increase.
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I simply didn’t take Lightweaver. I missed out on the difference between Heal and Flash Heal. It was doable. Lightweaver was better for M+ but it wasn’t impossible without it. I absolutely never did it for raid and I felt that I was pretty darn decent in raid healing.
But if the Lightweaver build is getting buffed, if it’s going to output twice as much as it did before, then the result is that we’re going to be twice as required to take it and they’re going to balance us to be just as effective as we were before.
You can argue whether it was required before, but the direction these changes go makes us even more required to use it. I was never happy with Lightweaver and I’m just as unhappy to have it this way. It’s a crappy talent. It’s a crappy playstyle. They might as well just make us a builder/spender healer and give us four little bubbles below our mana bar because that’s what this garbage is. It’s becoming non-optional.
Ya’ll can be happy that you’ll be able to do the dungeons a bit better now but the solution destroys alternative playstyles because of how they’re going to have to balance this thing. They will not let us outperform in HPS. So our maximum birst HPS will be the default no matter how convoluted (building up stacks and priming with HW: Sanctify) it is to achieve it.
What I believe the solution is was to simply buff Prayer of Healing. That’s it. It wouldn’t be overpowered in raid because it’s not a smart heal. Instead they gave the spell conditional power and actually increased the cast time unless you prime it with stacks of lightweaver and HW: Sanctify.
The old tree was fine. They could have done the buffs they did without changing anything. They didn’t have to remove CoH. They didn’t have to change the talent tree. They didn’t have to remove the battle rez.
It’s worth noting that much of my gripe is because I enjoy raid healing most of all. Dungeon healing appears to benefit from these changes significantly. Raid healing looks to be impossible without using dungeon style healing. I think their adjustment is way too drastic.
I mean, seriously, all they had to do was buff PoH like 500%-1000% and increase it’s mana cost so much that we could just barely get through the required healing checks before we didn’thave enough mana to cast it again. That’s it. Adjust its cast time if the HPS was too potent.
Lightweaver already was doing more hps if you played without it… like you were already cutting your own leg there.
You are literally describing live hpriest issue… Right now Raid healing is exactly the same as Dungeon healing. Bro you don’t even pick Salvation for raiding unless you just want to do way less healing.
New talent tree now opens up builds for Spot healing, Poh build or Renew build, they just need to adjust a bit talent distribution at the bottom part.
tbh they had 2 options:
- Remove PoH
- Remove CoH
It made no sense having these 2. Flash Heal and Heal shoud receive the same treatment.
Yes… They did have, the previous holy tree I’m sorry if you liked it but the whole community didn’t, and objectively it was a mess with no variations. I really don’t understand how you can say there were different playstyles. There weren’t.
This is exactly how you don’t handle class design. You are not giving a solution here. This is a patch and eventually it will cause problems. You can’t build from here.
?? This makes no sense.
It’s funny tho you are now saying you liked previous talent tree cuz it gives more variations to play but at the same time you made a post earlier saying you don’t want rotations, you want easy flash heal/heal spam
What are you missing?
The part where your party is taking 5 consecutive 1.2million + ticks of damage each second (well, non-tanks are), and PoH is doing 100k healing to each player baseline. After the new 40% buff, 8% nerf, 25% lighweaver buff, your new baseline is 161,000 per cast, also known as “the party dies”.
If you pop a 2 minute apotheosis, you get 3 instant casts @ 221,375 each person, and normal casts @ 177,100.
This means that every 2 minutes you can “burst” out 664,125 healing to each member, during which everyone received 3.6million damage. After all 5 damage ticks are accounted for you’ve piled out 841K+ ~200K EoL healing on everyone, and the dot has piled on 6 million damage EACH to you and the dps.
Piety will stack another 28% on that, meaning that burning two cooldowns, you’ve negated one whole damage tick during the s###storm. I hope everyone was topped off before that damage went out.
Diving Hymn will take 5 seconds to channel, (211K + 223K + 232K + 245K +245K) = 1,156M, plus PoM bonuses (at best, 4 bounces @ 74K) = another 296K.
Again, your “cooldown” has managed to negate one tick of damage for 5 seconds of channeling.
Disc just popping barrier prevented 1.2 million damage for ONE GCD and probably has a 735K shield on someone as well, AND can move or cast more spells while you’re waiting for Hymn to finish channeling.
Hymn needs to be fire and forget like Archon Halo (in 5-mans) , to not be a death sentence in mythic+. It’s fine in raids, but nobody can use it for the actual healing in its current and proposed state in 5-mans, it needs to be cast and run all the way through all its ticks before the big hits come out so that you get the 20% buff to the spells that ACTUALLY move bars during this kind of event.
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You and I disagree then. My raid healing was fantastic. Top 10-20 on my server and I didn’t use lightweaver. And I enjoyed the extra utility that Restitution brought. I never wanted easy Heal/Flash Heal spam, that was your assumption. I didn’t want to weave spells, and I didn’t and it was fine. Now I’ve got to wave even more spells. Makes no sense to have a CoH and PoH? Two different spells, one great for casting on the move. The other one SHOULD have been plant your feet for massive healing at a massive mana cost.
All they did was make things more complicated.
The class was designed well. It needed buffs in certain areas, namely dungeon AoE. Two spells perfect for that were PoH and CoH. Just buff CoH or choice node it into something useful in dungeon amd a different choice that’s more useful in raid. Add PoH to Lightweaver if needed, but it needed to be buffed A LOT. Make Divine Hymn instant HoT so you can spam PoH while it’s going off.
Instead we got an entire tree rework that’s just funky and it wasn’t necessary and it’s going to cause frustration.
I mean, how is somebody going to say that AoE in M+ was too difficult and then justify the removal of an instant cast AoE Heal? Because it didn’t heal for enough? Buff it.
It would be another thing if we were given the “high health pools, you have time to heal people back up” we were promised, but Holy priest’s toolkit (mastery, lightwell, and divine hymn to be specific) does NOT work in the new Mythic+ “we’re going to hit everyone for ALL the health over the course of a few seconds” that we’re seeing now.
It really feels like the left hand isn’t talking to the right hand at Blizzard. Like one group made the change that health pools should be larger to give players a little more buffer to recover from mistakes and time to heal and adjust, and then the other group just decided to balance the dungeon encounters without any consideration for that idea.
But whatever. I’m planning to sit this next season out. I don’t think this game is for me anymore.
The tree was stale and needed rework. I think the new tree will be a lot of fun to play around with. But yes I’m not convinced on PoH on doing anything other than to be used as a top up.
Honestly like most the changes. Feel like there’s a lot of fearmongering here, lol.
Disc changes are great for Oracle disc for the most part in PvE. Losing rapture kinda sucks, and Voidweaver just saw straight nerfs this patch. Oracle also still is probably not going to be the choice in raid anyway. M+ though they’re gonna be fairly strong, IMO. People are just straight ignoring how good Twinsight is as a talent. We already saw how strong it was for Disc back in DF to the point where they didn’t end up going live with it. This is a bit of a nerfed version because it doesn’t synergize with Harsh Disc, but it’s still rather good.
Holy changes across the board are better, IMO (except for empowered renew, lmao). After playing with the talent tree I generally like it.
(Also, told you guys it’d be 11.1 that changes would happen lol)
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