I too hate to choose between GA and Restitution.
Makes no sense as Rshams do not need to give up any utility to have their ankh.
Restitution while valuable can be very situational because if you just die randomly you are locked of it for 10 mins.
Restitution should be either baseline or very accesible in our talent tree.
I tried it once in M+ we wiped once so I had to wipe and to use my revive since there’s no way to save it. Decided that’s def not a M+ skill, also marginal for raid unless prog. Kind of awkward talent for me.
It’s good for pugging raids when you can’t count on a brez.
Ok, so 1.8m doesn’t seem too op then when the group is chilling pretty much where tanks are now in terms of hp.
Oh for sure, I was mostly thinking ahead about dps heath pools and how 1.8 doesn’t seem outrageous. I would really like to feel a bit stronger in mythic+next season. I imagine you are mostly thinking about raid though atm.
Restitution needs to be a choice node because it’s a rather awkward talent. It should give you an option to choose to revive vs being forced to. You can end up just dying twice in a row in situations out of your control. There’s plenty of situations where you don’t need GS and can run Restitution like on reclearing raid bosses.
Holy is one of the most survivable healers though and that’s mainly due to GS, lots of instant heals, 80%+ uptime on -10% DR, 20s fade additional -10% DR, and Desperate Prayers.
1.8m is with current iLvl 639. There’s no gear available on the PTR and they auto scale your gear up in the M+ and raid testing.
Holy will definitely feel a lot stronger come the next season, but we have to wait and see what they change over the next few weeks.
Right now if the patch launched Holy would easily be #1 on hps and 15% ahead of everyone.
Oh my bad. I thought you got max gear for that. Sorry. 
Ahhhh gotcha. That is good to hear that we will be stronger! That big of a number points to a nerf bat though, like you said.
Thank you for running numbers on the PTR. This all sounds promising!
I use current gear to make it understandable for people. When you factor in the Echo of Light bonus you can crit heal people for 4.5mil in total. Add in Desperate Times + Twist of Fate and yeah…
I’ve been mucking around with different M+ build ideas:
Divine Image/Divine Word/Answered Prayers w/ Desperate Times.
This build is for min-maxing damage output. It lacks Trail of Light though.
Lightweaver/Lightwell/Divine Image w/ Resonant Words and Trail of Light.
This builds focused on just raw single target healing. Lightwell can be swapped with 1 point in LOTN, Say your Prayers, or Desperate Times.
I don´t know what we need so much math for. Directly, at first glance the talent is just trash to me. Also, why exactly are you comparing it with CoH? It´s a choice node with LW, so that´s what we need to compare.
I picked a random log of mine, from Myth Rashanan
Flash Heal: 39,78m
Heal: 23,87m
Both: 63,65m
ToL 10,1m
Dispersing Lights: 6% of 63,65m = 3,819m
So what exactly are we talking about with this talent? ToL does 2,5 times more healing.
Well you forgot to multiply by 4.
It’s not 3.819m, it’s 3.819 x 4 = 15.276m healing. Therefore it’s 50% better than ToL in a raid. The talent isn’t 6% evenly distributed. It’s 6% replication to 4 targets.
One of the biggest complaints Holy has had 11.0 was the lack of aoe healing to deal with the incredibly high aoe damage that’s present in M+ and elsewhere. I was running the math to see how well it would fare on a per person basis.
As he said, you gotta multiply by 4.
Dispersing Light will be a decent raid talent, we’ll see how things come out in tuning. It’s no going to feel like it’s doing much as it’s automatic and the amounts aren’t that large, but it will add up over time and it does apply Echo of Light.
Rrrright, got it 
. Just checked it on PTR. Well, that makes it a nobrainer in Raid. I don´t see myself taking it in Keys tho.
Ok I had to go back to my pre 4pc logs 
Circle of heal overhealed 18% and trail of light overhealed 35%
1*.06* 4* (1-.18) =0.197
1*.35*(1-.35)=0.228
So this may not be no brainer. Based on this you would heal for 19.7% of flash/heal from dispersing light and 22.7% from trail of light. Numbers will vary but this is showing it’s much closer than first anticipated
In raid Trail of Light overheals around 40-50% because the majority of the time your last target you healed is topped off. Dispersing Lights will do less overall overhealing because it utilizes smart AI and does tiny salami slices.
I’m taking my actual ToL data, yours may be different as your heal team is likely stronger than mine.
But given tol has a 40% overheal it will still outperform dispersing if it has 13% or more overheal. Just saying it’s not actually cut and dry…. Yet
It’s a bit of the definition of a pad talent though, because it’s super unlikely to even have 13% overheal.
You’re looking at the difference of ToL (which is about 120% spellpower) and CoH (159% sp - can be higher with renew stacks in current).
Dispersing is a whopping 20% to 4 targets. The overheal is just going to be considerably lower. Near-zero, even, with smart healing. It’s only really going to overheal when the whole raid is topped.
Maybe. But given my current trail of light overheal. It is hps will be equal to hps with zero overheal on dispersing. Again I’m not fighting for trail, I’m fighting to give trail an honest look for when new season comes. It will seriously be close numbers and the better choice is likely the one that is more likely to save a life, in which I don’t even know which is better for that…. Not to mention caithrya suggests either may not even be chosen in raid. We can let it rest
With the PTR there’s going to be weekly changes so it’s probable that the tree we have now is going to be updated a few times to hopefully address some pain points.
If were not being forced to dump 2 points in Light in the Darkness and spend 2 extra points in Holy Celerity and Apotheosis that opens up more build options.
Smart AI is a term that we should probably not use for such basic conditions as the four lowest health allies or the four closest allies who are missing health.
I know it’s a nitpick but normalizing the term AI for such trivial programming. We just call it a Smart Heal.
Ahaux, if the numbers are that close than it’s likely, and it’s possibly even intended, that one will perform better in raid and the other will perform better in dungeon content.
I think Trail of Light will be the choice for dungeon healing and the other used in raid.
I swear they do these things to make it feel like we have a meaningful choice when we really don’t. I’m convinced that they have target HPS goals, possibly even for individual spells and talents, and try to equalize them between all forms of content. I think it makes balancing and encounter design easier for them when it’s done that way.
While ToL could possibly outperform the other one in raid, I don’t think that’s going to be the norm. I think the other guy is right that the other one will pull ahead as it will do less overhealing since it heals for less than CoH. And I think ToL may even end up overhealing for more, though I suppose that depends on how the damage profiles are in the next raid. It seems like the only time ToL really contributes a lot in raid, for me anyway, it’s when the group is performing very poorly. Otherwise I’m focused more on pumping out raid wide healing and significantly less on spot healing individuals.
But, yeah, my point is I think it’s probably intended to be one for raid and one for dungeon and that they intend for each option to have identical performance as far as HPS goes in their respective areas.
I mean were basically debates two talents that will be 2-3% of our overall healing because the bulk of our healing is being shifted around to our Holy Words. A single cast of Serenity does 3.5x what a Flash Heal can do on the PTR.
The new Holy power loop is going to be based around min-maxing the Apotheosis uptime and just churning out Holy Words.
I hopped on the PTR and tested a few more talents.
Lightwell
Divine Hymn
Lasting Words
Prayer of Healing
Apotheosis
Other notes
Overall my thoughts on PoH has changed after the testing. With 4 stacks of Lightweaver and Lightwell and/or Halo out at the same time you can easily burst heal the group up after a big AOE heal. Sanctify is also a lot stronger with the Light in the Darkness talent because the radius is so much bigger.
Ultimately with these changes Holy will be far less reliant on playing single target heals whack-a-mole imho to deal with pulsing AOE damage situations.