Showing the number of stacks over the spells sounds really good to me.
These are almost identical to my Excel numbers give or take crit hits and stats (except the gales of song which showed me 6.6 mil in oracle spec or 5.3mil in archon) , which gives me confidence in my other numbers. My biggest problem with PoH is that heal provides more HPS than PoH (cast speeds calculated directly) and you’re looking almost 50% more mana for the PoH. Lightweaver is supposed to give you efficient healing and your stacks are now consumed by expensive heals. The only real benefit I see from that is used during Apoth when the cast speed will flat out give you a quick sanctify quicker. I don’t know how viable that will be for raid, maybe M+ it can work out? If it’s competing with Heal then They need to reduce PoH cost by 50% so it becomes an equal conscious choice on single target hit or group hit.
Looking at my Pom calcs now I hope I don’t have an error here I was relying on using it as base for potential off meta build 
Edit, my Pom was multiplying additive numbers. After fixing it. 30 stacks of Pom should be providing roughly 4 mil+ healing archon. 2 stacks * 3 ppl every second for 5 seconds should be 30 stacks?
5 stacks provides 427k (including mastery) benediction provides almost 156 k per 5 stacks on average , divine service should increase healing by 6%. Say your prayers increases it by 15%.
(427+156)(1.06)(1.15)(30/5)=4,264.062
Edit… ok. Last time with this calc 
(427)(1.06)(1.15)(30/5)+156(30/5)=4,059.078
Thank goodness, flash heal spam heats up my RSI. After an m+ or two, my wrist screams at me.
Make sure to factor in that were getting a baseline -8% hps nerf. PoM on the PTR was only doing about 55-60k a bounce while I was playing Archon. The 30 PoMs added up to the numbers I saw (only extra 1.12 mil healing). Also, with Gale of Songs all the PoM charges need to be consumed to actually do its full healing.
You’re better off running the 2 minute Hymn talent because you can use it twice on M+ boss fights and it lines up better with your cds. You can rotate through Halo, Divine Hymn, Apotheosis, and Divine Word/Lightwell for one boss mechanic at a time.
PoH on the PTR does more healing per cast than Heal, but at double the mana cost, and its healing is spread over the group so you have to be aware of that.
Currently how Holy does AOE healing outside of using Halo is by playing whack-a-mole healing 1-2 targets at a time with single target heals. This means that when you heal 1 person you aren’t healing the rest of the group. When the AOE damage comes out rapid fire (in bigger keys) you physically run into a wall where Holy just can’t react fast enough. This is why Disc claps Holy on the AOE healing department.
Rapid firing 1s Lightweaver PoHs back-to-back with Sanctify’s and Serenity’s and Halo or Lightwell out will allow you to funnel quick healing to the entire group a lot faster then you could possible do with casting Heal and Serenity. It’s also easier and quicker because you only need to push PoH at yourself instead of having to hover cast different people one at a time.
Not all AOE damage events need to be handled by PoH though. It just depends on how fast and hard the damage comes out because if you have 10s to top the group off then you can just casually top them off with Heals and Halo.
This still needs to be live tested in the field though.
So, just because raid disc got buffed its ok for m+ disc players to be dog?
Its ok for pvp disc players to be absolutely irrelevant now with the removal of rapture?
Yea…when 2 / 3rds of the game modes are saying its gonna be complete garbage theres an issue bud
I play Disc in keys and just finished timing all +14s this week so all the nerfs and changes directly impact me as well. At the start of the season I couldn’t get invited to keys because it was a Resto Shaman meta and then it flipped to a Disc meta.
Disc will still be good after the changes, but it’s not going to be blatantly overtuned as it is now. What matters more then dps in timing keys starting at +15s and higher is being able to actually survive the boss damage.
On Disc you can Rapture, Mass Barrier, or manually PWS the group for every boss mechanic. You’re effectively buffering the groups hp bar by 20%+ in most circumstances and allowing them to survive situations that with any other healer would see those people get one shot. Also, Disc can easily pull 400k+ overall dps in big keys, and most other healers aren’t touching that.
So while I enjoy getting invited to 80%+ of the keys: I’m pretty self aware that it’s because I’m overtuned on group survivability and damage output. Also, there’s a lot of bad Disc Priest fotm rerollers who have 40-50% atonement uptimes on the group, do 250-300k dps, and barely heal my tank.
Good for you for being the 0.1 %
Im a 2700 xp disc priest in arena, and the way ish goes its going to go to the dumpster since there will be no way to survive the massive burst from certain comps that crank out damage buddy
Posting my thoughts on the Disc changes.
- Mindbender does not feel like a necessity at all anymore. My damage/healing output is the same as on the PTR as retail without having Mindbender and Shadow Covenant up constantly.
- My Voidweaver damage output on the test dummies was the same on the PTR as retail (450k). The lost damage on Entropic Rift is made up with SWP and Entropic Blast.
- My Voidweaver healing output was 1.5-2mil on the PTR vs 1.5mil on retail. The higher damage output of SWP (+55% with talents) makes up a huge amount of the atonement healing now.
- Oracle’s damage output is terrible. It’s literally -50% of what I can do as Voidweaver because Smite hits like a wet noodle compared to Void Blast. This is downright bad!!
- Penance not resetting with Smite casts slows down the dps rotation a lot.
- Ditto with PWS. You won’t be spamming this anymore with Flash Heal / Renew casts.
- Disc’s single target heals are significantly better if you take Inner Focus + Divine Aegis. Flash Heal can crit for 1.2mil and makes an extra 300k absorb shield. This is dungeon specific though because you only need single target heals if there’s nasty dots.
- Evangelism is kind of mid and definitely not as good as Rapture was. On 5 targets it only does 4.5-5mil split amongst them. It is an instant group wide heal though.
- Voidweaver is still going to be the factor pick unless they really beef up Oracle’s damage output.
IMHO, the quality of life changes are actually nice. 40 yrd radiance, less reliance on Mindbender for damage/healing output, and 2 more group healing cds (uppies + Evangelism). However, the major tradeoff of no more spammable PWS is definitely going to knock Disc out of the meta spot.
Build I used in my testing: https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/priest/discipline/voidweaver/DAREEEVFERBQFUpVEIRQDAFANVUVRRVSRhFKAQBREFVVUCFQ
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M+ disc will be fine. They were totally dominant, and only that dominant playstyle got hit at all. The rest of disc just got decent buffs. Alongside that the dominant playstyle got a huge buff to their DoT’s transfer into atonement, so I’m not convinced it’ll be gone at all.
Rapture is a HUGE loss for Arena, I agree, and I wish it didn’t go. But I doubt Disc will be down for the count in M+.
That said, M+ is super gatekeepy and based on the absolute top .0001% of players and what they’re picking. Quite likely that disc will be kicked out not because it sucks at healing, but because the meta tank is no longer paladin, or people start liking spriest again, etc.
Been saying this, but not a lot of people trust it.
Oracle’s damage is going to be below Voidweaver in AoE content, for sure. But I really don’t know how you’re as low as 50%. Reflective shield and more Holy Nova + dstar/halo casts should make up some of the difference now, especially if you’re playing for damage and grabbing TE.
Not saying it’s ever going to keep up, but it’s certainly not 50% behind anymore. FWIW, on live with none of the damage buffs oracle was pretty much only capable of being ~30% behind in a realistic dungeon if they were playing really well. I expect now they’ll be ~20-15% behind with access to TE and rift being nerfed.
We’ve been stuck since DF S2 with needing a 50% uptime on Mindbender just to do dps/healing.
I was doing 200-225k dps as Oracle with Shadow Covevant activated and everything. That was just absolutely cringe and I stopped after a minute. I’m not touching Oracle with a 10ft pole unless they buff the damage output.
With the power shifting out of Mindbender into Entropic Rift it makes your ability to respond to healing events easier. It also makes TE a bit more viable because you can weave regular Penances, SWP, and Void Blasts.
Yeah I think Scov is weak on Oracle and mostly just avoid it, so that helps explain things.
AoE damage with Oracle is gonna be more Holy Nova/playing around TE like it was before the introduction of super dominant Scov. Basically you’ll TE big Rhapsody stacks, Halo/Dstar, and make sure to spread your TE’d SW:P, and Uppies is actually a big portion, too.
It’s DEFINITELY still lower, for sure. Just 50% seems way too much to me on PTR, lol. Granted, oracle always looks bad on dummies because usually you’re doing bursts more often than sustained damage.
If you’re a player who loves the damage meters though, Oracle will likely never be for you unless they do some wild changes.
Oracle’s lower damage output translates to lower healing throughput though. You will struggle a lot to make the same healing checks that Voidweaver can do by just casting Mindblast every 20s.
It doesn’t really, it’s just a different style. You lean more on your buffed PW:S (you get max weal and woe on every penance fire with twinsight), your flash heals, free penance bolts from Twinsight, which also procs contrition.
You don’t play strictly atonement coverage.
The majority of the hps checks are atonement ones though until you reach the point where the boss AOEs start plastering the squishies in one hit if they don’t have defensives. That’s a couple key levels beyond a +10.
If the bosses are doing pulsing AOE damage then you need maximum raw output of 1-2x Harsh Discipline with Mindbender and Entropic Rift up currently to keep everyone alive. It’s only on the bosses that just do nothing but big AOE hits that you have to play the ol’ pre-PWS game.
Also, that extra 200k dps I can do on Voidweaver adds up. You’re shaving at least 30-60s off the timer and I’ve been timing a couple of +13s and +14s on the buzzer or with 30-45s left.
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For what it’s worth, I played Oracle to +10 in the first couple weeks before dungeon nerfs (I was playing it with a pally friend). And this is on the live patch where Oracle actually struggles a decent bit more.
I’ve also done a +10 Floodgate on PTR (which is scaled to pretty low ilvl) and it was really not bad at all - definitely better than it is on live. The build is a bunch of penance synergies, this is what I ran: https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/priest/discipline/oracle/DAQEFEVFUFBQFEpVEgRDBEQNVUVVVVCBFAaBUBREBQQUBU
Obviously I’d drop certain talents for utility reasons.
Basically Penance feeds Weal+Woe feeds PW:S feeds Words of the Pious. For scary moments like the big AoE on first boss I had uppies and barrier into that. I used Evang on the bloodwarper. Final boss I was able to muscle through the turbo charge with just insight - was too scared to try uppies there.
Damage was about 270k in the overall (so yeah, low), healing was about 1.5m hps overall I think? Not 100% certain on those numbers. But I remember it being near there.
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The PTR isn’t over so I’m expecting they’re going to be making more changes to Disc/Holy over the next couple of weeks. To make Oracle more viable they just need to get its damage output to actually be close to or match Voidweaver.
The main issue is that Oracle is you’re just using all stock Disc spells with just a +40% damage bonus. There’s no ability like Entropic Rift for free passive AOE cleave on-top of the other bonuses that Voidweaver gets. That just makes it physically impossible for Oracle to match the damage output of Voidweaver.
Holy has a similar issue with Oracle as well because Archon Halo w/ the +30% damage boost talent gives you more overall dps than Oracle Holy and 60-100mil+ free AOE healing.
Oracle needs additional mana discounts for holy. Maybe 30% reduction for 15 seconds every time you hit a premonition?
The reason why Oracle is less mana efficient than Archon is because Archon has the 3-4 free SoL procs and 15s of free AOE passive healing with Halo every minute. Those all add up over a 20+ minute dungeon.
Oracle has to hard cast more Flash Heals to make up for it. If you CDR’d your Holy Words faster or had some kind of passive AOE healing then Oracle would be more mana efficient.
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Yup, that’s preferred for sure.
Should be seeing a PTR update today if they keep with the Wednesday schedule.
Also, 8 weeks after 11.0.7 is a month from now. So we’re going to have a short test period of only a couple of weeks. I’m not going to be shocked since it was rushed they’re going to do further updates in 11.1.5.
With Holy they just need to fix the bottom of the tree and it’d be near perfect.
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