The same was said about warriors having double time AND stormbolt (as these used to compete in the same tier) and now they have them all. Double time stormbolt shockwave bounding strise and a wopping 5% extra movement speed at all times.
I dont think steed of liberty and blessing of freedom together would be op. But blizzard does. My guess is because ret warr would have high uptime on freedom and as you know ret in retwarr is the enabler so… yea. So long as they keep balancing with 3s in mind we wont ever get them bith
Or they just didn’t like the mechanics of them (one of the tests complaints is that you had to make 3 clicks to use the gap closer, in which at that point you might as well just walk to the foe.)
It’s idiotic we can perform 80% of our rotation in any content at range, which leads to unintended gameplay.
And yet your argueing for paladins to ho further into being a ranged spec…
So it’s stupid to expect a melee spec to have over 50% of it’s rotation to be melee only?
So if you wanted to be technical and if we used @mouseover it would require 2 key presses which both used the gcd at the time. While skilled players could utilize it well, it would be bad for the average player who has to click the reticle somewhere.
I much prefer the leap (tested) or teleport from above ideas players had here.
FoV, BoJ, HoW, judgement and wake (12 yard range) deals more then “70%” of our damage. (with hero talents)
How about i ask for the gameplay to change to what it is meant to be. A melee spec. Nerf the range, give us a gap closer. I for one am glad they are slowly incentivizing being in melee more by making ts hit hard, but that is only one skill players can opt out of.
Delete jurisdiction and give us something to shake up our rotation in it’s place, buff tv/jv damage to equal fv strike damage (keep fv doing more via HoW procs) for them to be legitimate alternatives.
The only 2 skills we should had 30+ yards is judgement/HoW. (Yes i know FV and BoJ is 20 yards with jurisdiction)
They have a dead talent now in the ret tree, divine wrath, they can replace it with the new gap closer for rets.
I don’t see any issue with that, the mouseover macro places it at your mouse point and then you press the keybind again. 2 presses which you could also stagger as needed, so it allowed some skillful play if you had to wait to do a mechanic, you just set it up to teleport right after.
Why does that matter? In PVE you’ll want to have 100% melee uptime, as much as possible. Else your dps will suck, it’s lower than 70% cause of no autoCS and no Art of War procs, you can go ahead and do that on a dummy for 2 minutes, your DPS will lower more than 70%.
You can ask, but i don’t see them doing that.
Also TS sucks as opposed to autoCS even with how hard it hits, we’re not starved for GCD’s.
FV is the official replacement for TV and JV should just be deleted, it’s not balance-able to make it heal more or do more dmg to stunned targets.
Divine Wrath is only a dead talent because Radiant Glory exists, if they modify or get rid of it DW will be key for longer wings, it’s not a bad talent. It should at least extend wings by 1 sec with RG talented, we should be asking for a fix here.
I really don’t mind csaa actually. Ret just needs to be more incentivized to be in melee and given the tools to do so. We are half way there with our snares, we just need a true hard to counter gap closer.
But your right, damage alone won’t suffice (i do know though in 11.0.5 we will lose HoW with wrath, not sure with crusade yet but i heard crusade was bugging up.)
Because we are a MELEE spec. We should be acting like a MELEE spec.
Art of war and cssa does not do 70% of our dps.
Ts and cssa is fine as choices, but again, they do not account for 70% of our dps. I do prefer ts how ever (and it will have more play in 11.0.5)
To you, sure.
It is balancable. They managed it before, they can do it again. But i do not think it should do double damage to stunned targets.
Problem is, if they have it work with radiant, it could lead to too much wing uptime, which would result in nerfs in other places in the spec.
It needs to be removed.
The issue with ret in pvp, is that we are not incentivized to stay in melee. We could literally spec out of AA having much effect planning around the idea we may not be melee much due to lack of gap closing and pillar strategies with our mostly ranged kit.
Ret has been for the longest time a melee-ranged spec… it won’t be changing any time soon, imo.
Go to the target dummy and do your rotation at range for 2 mins and then melee 2 mins, then notice the difference. Come back with the data.
I meant that the DPS will be lowered to under 70% of your normal 100% melee based dps. So the drop would be over 30% i think.
It’s an upgraded TV… FV is objectively the replacement for TV, what do you mean for me?
It never was… it was OP at one point and they nerfed it, multiple times and angles.
If it’s 1 second it won’t. That point you’re putting for 1 more second on wings will have to be taken from something else, so it’s the difference between them. In the end it’s 2 seconds of extra wings per minute.
So no, it doesn’t need to be removed, it needs to work with RG.
It only focused heavily as range since ret re-work in df.
Most of ret’s history is heavy melee with some offensive range.
I am not entertaining you. If you beleive that so much, you go do it.
It’s a ranged tv with a proc chance yes. But originally it only had the range and pric without the damage boast, and was an optional pick up for a reason. (Not every ret liked it)
The original df rework would like a word with you.
Considering it would effect every time wings is procced (2 seconds at minimum if we only counted wake) it would equate to going for more seconds uptime then what the original talent aimed for (3 seconds) on top of that, it had been reported that rg alone increases wing uptime per minute by 18 seconds alone (give or take)
I would suggest we don’t go too far with that or we will land into maintwnence buff territory.
You’re equating the power with the number of abilities. It’s always been pretty balanced in terms of numbers of abilities.
We had autos and CS melee in TBC with HoW and Judge (can’t remember if Exorcism was available back then) ranged.
We had autos + CS + DS melee in Wotlk vs HoW, Judge and Exorcism ranged
and so on, the number of abilities was always pretty balanced.
It doesn’t matter what kind of dmg they do, we’ve always been a hybrid between melee and ranged.
If dmg is what matters to you, then nerfing every ranged ability and buffing autoCS would do wonders for you.
You’re the one that claimed melee doesn’t matter. So you prove it, prove you can do that much dps at ranged only.
So it’s an OFFICIAL replacement for TV, just like i said, better in every way.
That’s why it’s always getting nerfed? Because it was balanced?
Because you’re saying that it would increase PROCS as well as the triggered AW, i’m saying it would increase just the triggered portion. So it wouldn’t be OP, it would be a viable talent to go against others, which would make it more valuable in some situations over them.
No yea I do not like csaa and now its the second expansion where its must use inpvp. I want it gone. I like pressing my skills.
If I was ret designer id just make crusade 3mins, delete radiant glory , delete csaa, delete ES, merge empyrean legacy and inquisitors ire, delete steed… I better stop now or I will write a max word count forum post
If someone is playing Ret paladin at range they are missing out on tons of crusading strikes/auto-attacks and it will have a drastic effect on resources and damage alongside procs such as empyrian power, art of war, etc…
If anything ret paladins could be considered to have minor upkeep on damage while at range but if they stay out more than a few seconds they will experience immense damage falloff.
You’re probably right. Through all the future expansions that includes new classes they have to save all their instant mobility ideas for those. No need to let Ret have one of their precious instant mobility ideas.
