It’s similar to Battle Shout tanking (at lower levels anyway), which is the highest AoE threat a Warrior could do. For some reason I don’t remember it in actual vanilla though, so it may be a bug.
Meh, for the alliance side. Give me Shammy for best NF swinger =)
Hunters have been shown to be the best NF users, I think.
Hunters have the highest debuff uptime, but at the cost of doing personally effectively 0 DPS.
Whether or not this results in them being the “best” depends on how much personal DPS the other users can contribute and how much debuff uptime they lose to gain that DPS.
As a hypothetical example, where I am making up numbers as I go along (based on half-remembered): Let’s say that a hunter spamming rank 1 wing clip has a 70% uptime on Nightfall. Let’s say that User X, who is not a hunter, has a 50% uptime. Assume that each caster is doing 1000 DPS and that there are 10 of them in the raid. Nightfall, while active, therefore adds 1500 raid DPS.
The hunter, at 70% uptime, would add an average of (1500 * 0.7) = 1050 DPS.
User X, at 50% uptime, would add an average of (1500 * 0.5) = 750 DPS.
Hunter adds 0 personal DPS. User X would therefore need to deal at least (1050 - 750) = 300 personal DPS to match the contribution to raid DPS.
Now, as mentioned, I made these numbers up. They don’t prove anything specific. They just demonstrate how to calculate whether or not a hunter is a better wielder than whoever you’re comparing it to.
Does anyone know if the +str/int/stam/spell plate pieces in BRD will be available from launch or will they be added later?
Items such as:
[Entrenching Boots]~https://classic.wowhead.com/item=22270~
[Earthslag Shoulders]~https://classic.wowhead.com/item=11632~
[Spiderfang Carapace]~https://classic.wowhead.com/item=11633~
[Foreman’s Head Protector]~https://classic.wowhead.com/item=22223~
[Lavastone Hammer]~https://classic.wowhead.com/item=22208~
I’m not sure when they were added to the game, would be some really nice pieces to be able to get when you just hit 60.
Earthslag Shoulders and Spiderfang Carapace should be in at launch, and the others were added in 1.10 so they should be added later.
You can look the item up on WoWpedia, and it’ll tell you the patch changes to the item. Items added in patch 1.10 wont be in at launch.
ty, ill take a look at that site.
Very good they’re trying to recreate when gear was added etc, makes it a tad more complicated to plan for gear now haha.
I was wondering about this my self, and talked to one of my guild healers (holy paladin) who’s been playing since Vanilla and still playing the same character.
He told me specifically that if you achieve a high enough attack rate (it was possible in Vanilla) that you can prevent any hard cast that’s not protected from ever finishing the cast because of spell pushback.
This is something I already knew because hunter pets + range attack can already do that. What I did not know was that paladin can do this simply by using Seal of Crusader + a fast 1 hand weapon.
What he was telling me was that it made it actually possible to beat healers in a duel because you had effectively endless interrupt. (he was playing as a healer doing this)
Just a little “FYI” of the stuff I did not know.
I’m pretty sure spell pushback had diminishing returns in Vanilla, and that you needed asymptotically infinite attack speed to make spells “literally uncompletable”.
(I can only find references to the Wrath version, where it stopped happening at all after the 2nd hit, which wasn’t how it worked in Vanilla, but I do remember it being less of a pushback each time.)
As far as realistic situations, though, yeah, they’re not going to get to finish their spell most of the time if you add multiple seconds to its cast time.
I wish it did, I learned a hard lesson about that in mid vanilla when playing my alt priest.
You’re right that they did add some DR later, but I don’t know when that was…
Went and did some digging and it was indeed Patch 3.0 when they capped it at 2 maximum pushback events for a total of 1.0 seconds total of delay on spell casts.
Before that point you’re totally boned if you did not have a paladin to give you concentration aura + whatever anti-pushback ability / talent you had.
Turns out that anti-pushback effects are additive; this is nice to know in advance!
My recollection of events, and this could be way off:
Release: No diminishing returns. Was a bad time.
Sometime during Vanilla: DR of some sort added.
Wrath: Reworked so there’s no DR after the first two hits, each of which is the same amount.
As has been said already,
Ret doesn’t have the DPS to be competitive DPS wise. You bring Ret for the full toolkit they could provide, not for the numbers.
What hasn’t been said is that Prot will go OOM tanking in raids. You will have to sit and wait for them to drink constantly and if they go OOM during a boss fight, it’ll probably be GG.
You could most certainly be pushed back, as I remember (could be wrong) it could be indefinitely, but I don’t know for sure because I have never seen a caster live long enough to attempt it with out the talents.
The thing is, most casters can get talents for hard casting to reduce the pushback chance by a %, such as say 70%.
So what happens per direct damage event is the caster rolls vs that direct damage and 70% of the time he can totally ignore the damage incoming that would be pushback with out that talent.
If the caster has both the talent and the paladin aura, they’re immune to the pushback totally.
It was every easy to figure out what casters were not talented and who was in Vanilla as a hunter, you simply put a high attack speed pet on them and the only thing they were doing is dying or running away…
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I don’t remember dimish returns in classic, I could roll a tauren alt and try to stomp with mobs hitting me and it would be kick back the same distance, but the attack speed of the creatures weren’t hitting him fast enough to make it impossible to cast.
Cast push back dimisn returns I mean.
ok kids - here’s a video from yesterday showing the Spelladin in action on a live server against C’Thun…
Enjoy!
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I think there is so much unknown about what is possible with a Vanilla Paladin. Im going to be a mega hybrid, spell spower holy ret.
40m Paladin raids are going to be interesting. Might bring 2 warriors for boss tanking.
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I am curious about what you intend to do about fights like say for example Ony where she’s in the air… do you intend to attempt to kill her with holy shock or something?
This is merely one example of a sitaution where a single class might be incapable of actually dealing with the raid mechanics.
How about situations where you specifically need to remove “Curse”?
Again it’s a situation where a single class is going to be woefully equipped to tolerate the demands of the raid…
Perhaps it’s possible to overcome these things easily with gear and cunning, but that’s why I ask the tough questions.
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I never thought that we would be able to clear every boss in Classic.
It will be near impossible to do that 40 Paladin only.
We can clear trash hope for some drops and surely some bosses will fall.
Bringing some classes in to assist our Paladin raid will probably make it possible.
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Bring priests; they will provide you range and bubbles to further increase your durability.
I want to know what is going to happen with the seal of the crusader seal stacking.
Would be interesting if it does stack every rank and having a smite priest DPS.
if the seal stacking works, Naxx is going to not be too hard to do some stuff with lots of Holy damage.
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