Are they really as bad as the paladin’s claim or were my observations as a hunter in Vanilla accurate?
What I saw were two very different classes of Paladin, regardless of the build there were two kinds. Great paladin who’re gods of their play style who dominated PVP or PVE.
There was that other class of paladin who constantly groaned for buffs, and still to this day cry about it.
Were paladin really that bad; as bad as the the group 2 paladin claim?
Testing out this new mechanism to see if it actually works; ya know when you’re summoning the spirits of paladins fallen you need to use the right spells… I think this one will summon the spirit of Theloras.
In my experience a good number of the Paladins that complained about how terrible Ret was were ones that wanted to ignore half their abilities and do nothing but DPS.
Around here that now translates into “If I spend 100% of the time DPSIng, I should do DPS comparable to a Rogue” all while doing the same problem of ignoring the fact that you still have those other spells in your toolkit.
Somebody who can turn around and heal somebody back to full in 2 casts even in full DPS gear is nothing to scoff at. The mere fact that they can do that means they can’t be also running around with the DPS of a Rogue or Mage.
and if you choose to ignore that you can do that, that doesn’t mean you should DPS like a Rogue. That means you should learn how to use your full toolkit.
See that’s way I see it too. It just never made any sense from a overall game point of view to allow hybrid DPS to do the same damage when they offer so much more than DPS.
Don’t worry Ziryus can smell this argument and will be posting up that it’s a role based game, and there are only 3 roles…
To that I quote blizzard clearly stating that WoW is a “class based game”…
Ol Ziryus likes to quote blizzard when it suits him, such as but not limited too “they’re using 1.12” or “it’s 1.12”, or some other literealist thing.
Ziryus also thinks that higher end raiding, where DPS numbers on longer fights actually starts to matter, isn’t viable to begin with so he shouldn’t worry about raid balance.
and in 5-10 player group sizes, their buffs are a lot more meaningful when you don’t have 5-6 Paladins covering every Blessing.
Resistance auras are totally useless, but who would know a thing about that right? Oh that’s right every raid needs 15 healers because all hybrids have to play a healer.
As a hunter, you should know the stereotypes about players and classes, and that’s also true of paladins in Vanilla.
Raiding level paladins sometimes felt pigeonholed into the hybrid support role, but at least prepared themselves to do ret dps or protection.
I raided with two paladins who were of each type. One was prepared as a tank, and even had the first Thunderfury in my raid group so he could tank groups of mobs. The other was a GM ret pally who was pretty dominant in PvP, but lagged behind in DPS during a raid.
I still remember when one a Ret pally was boasting about doing 1k DPS in Naxx gear, how rogues on the forums were rather… condescending would be a kind word for it.
That said, there’s private server folks who go on about how ret dps is viable, but one must focus entirely on DPS in order to make it work, forgetting that it might be based on how that private server handled ret dps, and that it may not accurately reflect Vanilla’s numbers.
You’re right there is a lot of stereotype stuff going about still to this day. I know that it’s driven by ignorance, but you’d think that the old stereo types would have died off due to better information by now.
Yes, they were really that bad. Anyone telling you otherwise is trying to justify their existence.
“But we bring so much more than DPS!” Yes, but nothing you bring requires you to be Prot or Ret. Go Holy, bring the same utility, and be even more useful.
it become garbage after 1.9,
before 1.9 it was a not so bad spec and the lack of def gear was its only problem, i’d say that bad T1 stats design was the problem(before zg/aq).
the lack of taunt was much more less problem than many ppl thought;
after 1.9 it become easier to gear because of new aq20/40 gear, but overall nerf of its abilities( JoF removal) make its threat generation poor ;
Why are you asking about classic pallies then whining about what some pallies don’t like about retail?
Also, people have very short memories that paladins, in the beginning, were heal and buff bots. When ret was deigned to be made somewhat viable by blizz, it still depended heavily on gear and gimmicks like engineering. Good old school rets knew how/when to heal and buff their teammates. I didn’t see many that failed to do that back then, but of course our design was entirely different.
That reminds me to add that to my list of things I would like to test in a hypothetical ‘beta where I somehow get to do whatever I want’: check spell damage coefficients on items (particularly focusing on whether or not they are zero.)
AOE what ?
oh, then i will say it again:
there is 3-4 places at the whole raid content where it could be used,
and there is no places where it really should
when you just start doing significantly less threat on bosses, you could call it “redesign”, but it was a direct nerf for prot;