Paladin Tank

WoW Classic WoW Classic Hardcore
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I tanked as a paladin on normal classic in all dungeons but LBRS/UBRS. The two fights I remember having trouble with was Princess in Mara and Shade of Eranikus in ST. Princes does her knockback and fear which means limited melee uptime and ranged dps can easily pull threat. With no taunt in HC that is a pretty big disadvantage. On Shade he puts the tank to sleep and drops aggro. You need a taunt to pick him back up, which again, big disadvantage.

Other than the lack of taunt, everything else you can do just as well or better than Warriors and Druids. Going engineering and using grenades to range pull is a must. Judging righteousness is generally enough snap threat. Using wizard oils will ensure everything is glued to you. Mana isn’t really an issue if you learn how to use seal/judgement of wisdom, down rank spells like consecration, use mana pots, and use a threat meter to know when you need to use spells. Even if you do need to drink, it gives an opportunity for the healer/casters to drink to and your mana pool is so small that you will generally get a full bar faster than others in your group.

I always liked the 11/32/8 build, getting consecrate in the holy tree first, then deep prot, and the final points in the ret tree for cheaper seals and some parry. I’ve never done a 31/20/0 build to tank but it definitely would have better single target aggro. As you level up you will be missing some damage mitigation talents in prot which does matter for how large a pull you can do and for conserving healer mana. I personally wouldn’t go the funky tri-spec the OP mentioned. You’d be missing reckoning which is amazing for extra seal/judgement procs and holy shield which is a good mitigation/threat ability.

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I am very sad to see that ignorance is alive and well (Auril and such other posters).
Paladins are great tanks if properly mastered, the thing is that a bad paladin will be massively detrimental to the party or raid, whereas a really GOOD paladin can be amazing.
You seem to be a walking encyclopedia, might I pick your brain for a moment? You mention that Gbok generates threat, do you cast this in raids on the class with the most slots? Ex: 10 warriors vs 8 rogues, you would spam this on warriors all the time?
Another question, I assume this does not work in 5mans, due to the size limitation. Would you argue in favor of the Shockadin build for snap threat, or do you still hold on to the previous builds you mentioned? This is exclusively 5man content. What would you suggest an up and coming Paladin tank that will never touch raids but likely invest a lot of time in 5mans until he dies? Thanks!

Also in a strictly 5man dungeons, would the Paladin Tank buff himself with Kings or Sanctuary? Assume that there are no other paladins available.

Ah another question! You use flurry axe for the extra hit to generate more mana, love it. I heard but cannot confirm that if you use Fiery Plate Gauntlets - Item - Classic World of Warcraft (wowhead.com) the fire attack counts as another swing and increases your mana. Is this right? It seems uber sketchy.

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Paladin tank is simply way inferior to warrior tank until TBC. However if you enjoy it, and your group / guild doesn’t care go for it!

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Greater Blessing of Kings causes 144 threat per person it is cast upon. 10 warriors would be 1044 threat per GCD. You’d most definitely want to cast it on the class that is the most stacked in your raid, but if you can’t reach one of them or had to move, hitting the next highest class is fine. Edit: You should be mindful of your mana though. If you’re way ahead on threat, it’s okay to idle a little to let JoW/SoW give back some mana. Watch your potions/dark [demonic] rune cds and watch the threat meter.

Pretty sure this was my typical “balanced” gear set. I would have to log into my paladin (current avatar) to see, but I am at work. I would do things differently now since it’s 1 life, but that’s a general map to how I was gearing on Classic.

The more spell power you have for small group settings, the better. Salvation on the DPS and make sure to not stay focused on 1 target for far too long, especially if people are AOEing. You can always BOP dps who are getting lucky strings of crits, but as your gear and threat goes up, it’s never a thing. For 20mans, if you have 3 of one class, that’ll be enough to generate threat with Kings while mixing in your other spells. Rank 3 SoR gets 1.1 spell power conversion while other ranks get 1.08 iirc.

Due to limited gear in 5mans that would have the “best” stats for you, you’ll have to kind of lump together a mixture between threat and defensive. The Dire Maul/UBRS/LBRS/BRD items can make a good set. The tier .5 is pretty decent for threat. The problem is, as more people would get gear, they’ll be doing more threat while you’re doing about the same. So keep that in mind.

The Kings Vs Sanctuary is dependent on the group make-up. If you have a priest and a mage with you, Sanctuary is probably slightly better, but Kings is never the wrong choice.

In dungeons, you’re almost better off with a spell power weapon most of the time. SoR deals damage based on weapon speed + spell power. Slower weapons = bigger hits of SOR, but SOR hits like a wet noodle. So faster is usually better, plus if you’re judging wisdom on bosses, you’ll see some mana back, but things die so fast in dungeons that it’s usually best to SoR the full way through.

I’ve read those gauntlets may be another use for triggering JoW/SoW, but I’ve not tested it out. If I was managing my mana properly or had an innervate, it rarely ever mattered. It’s one of those things that is the most fun you’ll have in WoW if you get it down right. All the naysayers start to shut up and it’s great. I had a few guilds ask me to help their prot paladin since my Alliance guild was fairly casual and we had PUGs from other guilds that were officers and GMs in their main guild.

Wowhead has a really well put together guide, it could be a little more condensed, but it’s really a great starting place:

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Great information, as a fellow pally tank (part time at least) I’ve had great success in every dungeon, but unfortunately I only ever tanked a ZG as far as raids go. That raid went really smoothly too, I actually kept threat over one of my guild’s warrior OTs on hakkar too! It is always nice to hear the great compliments from being able to crush dungeons as a tank, people always underestimate it until they witness it themselves.

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I made all the warrior tanks in my guild very upset when I would take threat off them. I could do it easily and had to throttle myself when I was not the MT. Eventually, I just MT’d most of the fights since it was much easier and nobody had to hold back on threat.

The real tricky thing is fights that drop threat. If it’s a full drop like Shazz, it’s pretty simple as he’ll blink away, you hit Kings, he runs back towards you and it works out perfectly.

Someone mentioned how we can’t taunt on Erakinus in Sunken Temple. While true, if you plan your bubble out perfectly, or let someone pass you on threat as he’s about to slumber you, it’s not a big deal. I actually can’t remember if he is even tauntable? Either way, knowing a fight really well gives you a lot of advantages.

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it should be. but blizz did literally nothing for the game.

they should have changed things to make it so we didn’t get stuck into even more meta.

hc wotlk will be the best version of hc.

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Some things never change, like delusional paladins trying to convince people they can compete as tanks and dps. Yes, you can do it in your meme guild runs; no, it is never as good as a warrior who is playing properly.

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Or people who refuse to acknowledge the fact that it is fully doable and someone who played “a warrior properly” can attest to it.

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It always makes me laugh when these meta gamers get mad at other people enjoying the game with off meta builds and classes. They just follow a guide telling them which spec to play, which consumes to use, and what buttons to press and treat a damned video game like a second (or first) job. Half of the time they don’t even perform well in the meta that they’re slaving over.

I’ll keep having fun instantly getting into groups while tanking, healing, or dpsing while these dudes keep foaming at the mouth yelling about these builds aren’t viable.

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No-one is saying it isn’t “doable”, they’re saying it’s clearly inferior compared to warrior. Which is absolutely true in every respect in classic WoW.

On the other hand, bears can compete with warriors in many settings, and they’re arguably better tanks for many early raid bosses.

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Fantastic post as always! Much to learn for me, thats why I am still just 16 in HC.
Tanked all my life since Burning Crusade on my paladin, but Vanilla is a different beast altogether.

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Inferior is in the eye of the beholder.

If you compare them side by side, it becomes a lot more blurred. We’ll compare all 4 tanking styles. Bear, Fury Prot, Prot Warrior, and Prot Paladin.

  • Best single target threat? Paladin>Fury>Bear>>>>>Prot warrior
  • Best multi-target threat? Paladin>>>Fury>Prot Warrior>>Bear
  • Best mitigation? Prot warrior>Prot Paladin>Bear>>>Fury
  • Best CDs? Prot Warrior/Fury>Bear>Paladin (skewed if you have LoH off CD. Having 2 health bars is nothing to scoff at, but it’s an hour cd so it’s 1 get out of jail use. You might get 2 uses out of Shield Wall, but if you are speed clearing? One.)
  • Best gear for tanking? Warrior>Prot Paladin>Fury>Bear (Fury gives up mitigation for threat, but can swap to shield. Bears have really decent gear, but aren’t crit immune and can’t be).
  • Most health? Druid/Prot Warrior>Fury (wearing mostly tank gear)/Paladin>Fury (most threat gear)
  • DPS added to raid? Fury>Bear (swapping to cat)>Prot Warrior>>>>Prot paladin

In Classic, most bosses hit soft compared to say Brutallus in Sunwell. The metric of a good tank is how much threat they produce. A paladin can produce more threat than a warrior in mitigation gear while the warrior is typically Fury in some tank gear. As Fury prot, you’re often even wearing leather and mail gear for extra TPS. Each tank has it’s strengths and weaknesses.

The difference is not that big. We’re talking a mole hill compared to Mt. Everest how some people talk about it.

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If you’re going to prot paladin early and tank something like DM/VC it can be a bit hectic.

Get consecrate as your first 20 talent. If you can grind out the money, get some good “Of the Bear,” “Of the Eagle,” or “Of Stamina” gear (Monkey isn’t bad either since you get some armor/dodge). There is a repeatable quest in Westfall that gives you 5 charges for 3 Stamina for 5 minutes (20 min total). Have cooking an at least have +4 stam/spirit food. Have dynamite if you’re an Engineer to help with extra threat on pull or on bigger pulls and use Ret Aura if possible. Water, always have a stack of water.

Mark targets and focus on JoR on that target and swap around if you’ve got a decent lead. If you lose threat when mobs are low, it’s typically not an issue. BoP anyone who is going crazy.

Had a mage going full blast AOE and told them that it’s risky. They said they were fine with the risk and they were only really pulling off me as mobs got low, so by the time they were about to be hit, the mobs were dead or dying.

Bosses are pretty easy. JoR to start with a dynamite, consecrate, JoR on CD. Don’t forget about the spawns and pull as much as you feel comfortable with. I was pulling 5-6 mobs at a time, but 2-3 is safe. In HC, most DPS are probably going to play it safe over trying to go full force, taking threat can be a death sentence.

If a priest is healing you, they can bubble you. The only thing you’ll lose out on is a tiny bit of threat off Ret aura (which can be big).

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Got it, at low level SoR is the play and Consecration must be rushed. What do you think about Judging Seal of Crusader on bosses as pull? Is the lack of snap aggro too hard? I think it is, but I am not sure. Again this is for low level dungeons.

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I haven’t wasted money training Crusader. More often than not, you’re better off always going SoR in dungeons. Things don’t live long enough to make Wisdom or Crusader effective. Once you get to 33, you’ll have 90% Righteous Fury and at 26 you’ll have Salvation. Pally Power is a must and don’t let either buff fall off on yourself (RF) or the DPS (Salvation).

BoW is ideal for, but BoM is still good for extra white damage threat. Threat is basically 1 threat per damage. Righteous Fury makes it 1.6 threat per damage (up to 1.9). The bad part is, the earliest low weapon speed I think available is the Iridescent Hammer at level 23:

It’s costly to make and the AH on Defias Pillager has it at like 3g the last time I checked.

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Gotcha! Sounds good. At what time do we consider doing the Wisdom Rotation? I am guessing around Scholomance and Stratholme where we can Exorcise for additional threat but upping the mana usage.

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I wouldn’t typically use JoW/SoW in dungeons unless the DPS is significantly bad and you’re holding threat with consecrate/ret aura/sanc/salv/holy shield easily. Exorcism is a lot of threat, and a decent amount of mana. It’s long cd makes it a lot less reliable than JoR/SoR. JoR is a 10sec cd and when you’re swinging with SoR, you’ll be doing some additional threat.

You really won’t be using your whole mana bar every pull typically. You should get 3-4 pulls typically before you’ll be needing to drink. If you can ever let the 5sec rule happen, it’s a little bit of mana back too. The late game stuff has very few things that run away in fear which is nice, but mobs that do, just Judgment of Justice them.

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nobody is disputing that warrior tanks are better than paladin tanks.
but still, a paladin could probably tank a raid boss, especially if both he and the rest of the raid were prepared for it :expressionless: never forget how easy classic era raids are

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“viable” and “good” are not the same thing, sweetie :expressionless: