I would argue “optimal” versus “viable” 
it’s sadly one of those few semantics arguments that carry a lot of weight. People are stuck in 2004-2007 on this topic. I’m just glad it’s starting to slowly change. Back in 2005, when my friends got bored of being Horde for a bit we swapped Alliance and I went Paladin and wanted to tank. That was Seal of Fury days.
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I remember the Seal of Fury days 
good times.
Dude was trying to say Holy Shield eliminates crushing blows… it doesn’t in Classic. Only Warriors can do that consistently.
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Welcome to two weeks ago, you goof.
My dumb phone still sucks.
Dude was trying to say Holy Shield eliminates crushing blows… it doesn’t in Classic. Only Warriors can do that consistently.
You really like to misconstrue my words. Please quote where I said “eliminates” and not “greatly reduces” please? I stated one several times, while you claim the other multiple times.
If you were to receive a Crushing Blow, that would trigger Redoubt for another 30% block. This makes your total block before Defense/Block % is added to be 60%. Yes, it’s a silly design to have to be receive a Critical Strike or Crushing Blow to activate Redoubt, but that is the developer’s design in Vanilla (probably why they changed it in BC)
Crushing Blows are only 150% of normal damage and only fights like Patchwerk would be slightly more scary. Again, if the 7.88% were to occur, you’d then be Crushing Blow immune for the next 10 seconds via Redoubt + Holy Shield + defensive stats.
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Even in P6 full “tank bis” the prot pally can’t even clear 5k HP, warriors do that in T1. Even with full bis they are roughly 20% behind in raw avoidance, 3-4k HP lower, and have worse mana pools than T1 bis casters.
Pallies are dungeon tanks at best, anything else is copium.
I love Paladins, but there is a difference between viable and severe copium.
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Even in P6 full “tank bis” the prot pally can’t even clear 5k HP, warriors do that in T1. Even with full bis they are roughly 20% behind in raw avoidance, 3-4k HP lower, and have worse mana pools than T1 bis casters.
This is wrong. Paladin tanks reach about 5.5k and you can move that up or down depending on if you want to add more base avoidance or more health. A full t3 warrior unbuffed is around 7k. The difference is 1-1.5k not 3-4k.
Warrior in full mitigation gear would be way over capped on defense and outside of maybe Loatheb and Patchwerk, they would be wearing a lot of DPS gear. So while yes, a warrior can reach a higher raw avoidance, that’s pretty much a moot point since after 102.4%, nothing matters. If the warrior is not wearing a shield (as they are usually dual wield for threat) they don’t gain any block %. So you’d have 15-20% dodge and parry typically. Paladins will have similar stats (depending on how you gear) while wearing a shield 100% of the time.
You don’t need a major mana pool to tank on a paladin. Kings costs 150 mana. Holy Shield costs 150 mana. With buffs you’ll have around 4k or more mana (gear dependent). That’s plenty in a >1-5min fight like most are. Mana potions will give you over half (or full if they crit) your mana, innervate, or just JoW/SoW provide enough sustainability to tank a raid.
Pallies are dungeon tanks at best, anything else is copium.
I love Paladins, but there is a difference between viable and severe copium.
If you look through this very thread, you can see that it’s not “copium” as it’s very doable. Don’t sell yourself short. Read the guide and try it out.
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Just loaded the gear set into the sixty upgrades calculator, and you’re wrong.
I was 98% in both 10m and 25m with a casual guild in P1 of WoTLK before I quit. You’re more than welcome to fact check that. In fact I haven’t played since P1 and if you open my logs they are all still 90% despite my nearly year long absence.
I was also top 25 ret in Classic on my ally toon before I remade it for WoTLK.
I actually know what I am talking about, you do not.
Cope harder.
good one. Sorry my 18 years of Paladin knowledge transcends you common forum goers.
If you think Paladin tank is viable, you might be damaged.
Did you just assume anyone gets defense cap in vanilla gear? Lmfao what
Bro, you just outed yourself as a googler
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Their insanity near ceases to amaze me.
I wonder if the crazy zealot will even reply to my comment but probably not.
False again.
Crushing blows are not crits
Google harder please
My man the delusional paladin is an uber expert in tanking but also doesn’t know crushing blows and crits aren’t the same thing lol
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This guys bad info is the kind of stuff posted on the Paladin discord constantly. It’s why every ret you see in wotlk is almost always garbage.
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What are you talking about.
A warrior in full mitigation gear:
454 defense. That’s 14 over defense and that’s if you don’t get stupid goofy with it. It can go higher. Again, over 440 is a waste in Classic. I literally linked you my logs.
That gearset is straight trash, are you serious? Nobody is wearing that
FULL dreadnaught? Double defense ring over archirimtos? No DFT or kiss?
2.5 is the best ranking set for threat and avoidance. Dreadnaught is ring, bracer, helm MAX
Maybe, MAYBE chest/shoulder for KT since he slaps on autos
This is FULL MITIGATION. Not Mitigation + threat.
Again, you just move the goalposts wherever you see fit. It’s pathetic.
I was wrong about Crushing Blows. I thought I had read that Redoubt was incorrect in the tooltip and worked on Crushing Blows as well. Either way, you do not on either a warrior or paladin aim for crit cap regardless. So having a chance to proc it will put you above Crush cap when it happens.
Nobody cares about crushing blow, tanks get crushed all the time in classic. Only in tbc crushing blows mattered
Stop being a googler
I scrolled up to look at his logs.
This guy is actually off his rocker.