Generally yes, but that tends to get blurred the higher you go up in whatever content you are doing.
If you are pugging, ret paladins usually arent valued as high as Holy Paladins unless they do dumptrunk amounts of damage. But that’s generally always been the case.
Blood DK would like to have a word with you about worst mobility 
Nobody goes “mmmm yes we need blessing of sac for this dungeon so lets bring a ret paladin” absolutely nobody.
Holy paladin is an absolutely outstanding healer for both m+ and raid. I don’t know what panda leaf you were smoking.
I haven’t enjoyed Pally this much since BFA, and imo this is the best version of Paladin I have ever played. FYI I play all 3 Pally specs in both pve and pvp. I am having so much fun. Especially Ret feels so much cleaner like how it used to be. No more stacking 3-4 dps modifiers on top of each other and only doing damage once every 2 minutes. It feels so much more fun and interesting for me and totally suits my playstyle. I feel like an absolute monster on my Ret and love the RPG feeling of a Lightsmith Hpal, pumping out buffs and blessings to my teammates, and I love the flavour of CASTED buffs to myself (hand of divinity and tyr’s deliverance).
Not trying to argue that pally is GOOD, who knows it’s just early access. I don’t care too much about my class being meta I just want it to be fun.
I think the trend I’m seeing lately is a lot of players rolled Paladin (Ret) in DF without ever taking the time to really learn how to play them effectively.
Low overall dungeon damage is never going to be an issue for a Ret. If talented properly (I like Sun Ret for dungeons) and the tank is pulling more than two mobs at a time, Ret has some amazing cooldowns and synergy to do a LOT of AoE damage.
Ret is a deceptively easy class to play. Far less complex than others but you really need to think about when to use your cooldowns and train yourself not to button mash. That was a problem I had when I started playing Ret.
Most importantly, you need to pay attention to your Holy Power and prioritize building over spending, but never over-capping.
I’ve been playing prot paladin since TBC. It has been the only class/spec I’ve mained since playing WoW. The thought of having to switch mains honestly makes me just want to stop playing WoW. I don’t understand how the devs continue to ignore the feedback that Prot is in a terrible place and needs buffs. It’s been over two months with beta and now release and still no changes have taken place.
PLEASE BUFF PROT!
Buff won’t solve the issue prot have which is a design one.
Ever since they removed HP from AS it’s been broken and holding with duck-tape.
It didn’t solve the issue THEY had with the spec and instead now creates problem with hero spec because it doesn’t interact with either at all.
Making it virtually worthless to press as far as the hero spec are concerned while being the focus of the whole left side of prot tree.
Make it a builder again, if you want to control SotR uptime then create another spender for damage instead of having SotR do literally everything (defensive, offensive, CDR control on major CD, strength buff, etc).
Then when the spec is coherent use the slider to buff or nerf.
They could had easily put a CD on sotr for prots even instead of taking hp away from AS.
The only thing with that is, we still have the problem that SotR does everything.
Which means, if you put a CD on it, you don’t have a spender to fall back on for damage.
But point is, there’s some other options to frame everything back toward the HP system if only they’d bother to.
i dont know, ive only been playing ret pally in tww and im having fun. i think im killing mobs fast
noob here. Im 3 months in from a 15 year break. ret paladin is the only thing that has been able to excite be despite leveling everything to 70 besides a rouge and warrior. my favorite thing so far about paladin is that it is mele but has wicked range on most of my abilities that allows me to stay back when needed and my dps doesnt suffer much. i had previously been trying to main enhancement Shaman, but it doesnt feel the same since the war within prepatch.
its also a simple and palatable rotation and has been helping me learn other mechanics.
Prot paladin deserves a redesign that is also a buff. In pvp you get called a troll for trying to play is since it is terribly poor at all pvp objectives/rolls.
Leveling didn’t feel bad or anything.
I’m currently leveling my mage, I’m killing mobs faster despite having much worse gear at 70. Not sure what it will be like now with the changes.
thats on the nose, and now theyre all being humbled cause the fotm pick isnt the fotm pick anymore
I think it’s way too early to say what the FOTM is. I know Frost DK and WW are both insane in 5-mans. Both of which I can beat on my Ret when I’m trying hard.
Ret is mediocre on boss damage in dungeons unless you take Templar, but I find Herald of the Sun is just hands down the best for AoE.
ture its to early to say whats gonna be fotm
but i can assure you, it aint ret. people who rerolled ret in s3-s4 post buff and lego are gonna get a rude awakening
I disagree. Ret is amazing right now for the current batch of dungeons that do a TON of damage to melee. Herald of the Sun + 3 bubbles and passive healing means is pretty huge now that we aren’t stacking Versa.
Ret just has too much usefulness right now with all of their utility and healing.
I mean ret does ok damage but compare to my fury warrior and HDH it seems to be doing less damage. I can easily go over 1million DPS on my warrior and HDH while ret sometimes I could do that but mostly I am stuck at 700 to 900k. I went with Templar since we don’t have as much mastery to make to Herald of the Sun worth it so I feel defenstily my DH and warrior also seem be more tanky.
From what I’ve played with Herald of the Sun, it seems to be the go-to spec for 5-mans. If you are doing big pulls, you get a lot of value from the procs.
The healing and speed boosts feel really good too when you need them.
I will say, that HoTS has had some bugs and stuff doesn’t seem to proc as much as it should. Maybe I’m wrong, I’ve only done a few heroics.