I’d like to see a final tuning pass before beta starts to feel more comfortable. If not, I may go war/monk
Wdym before beta start? You mean the expac starts?
They have been scrambling for time and it showed in the pre-patch, it’s a not up to what they usually do.
They have to adapt to a new release schedule of 18 months.
So don’t hold your breath for the launch, we’ll very much still be in “beta mode” for weeks after launch.
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This^
Some classes went through major overhaul changes and feel fantastic to play in both visuals and output (EG MAGE).
Unfortunately, paladin is not one of them.
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I meant live. Been on beta server alot lately and had that word on my mind
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Ret gameplay is solid with both Herald and Templar, it doesn’t change much to our current rotation.
Prot has been broken since the change to AS and it makes it even more awkward for both Hero spec as they are designed.
Holy looks awful all around.
It’s actually improved with stacking greater judgements. I don’t know if we will even need the extra greater judgements from the hero talents.
Highlord wrath?
I think specifically at the start of the expac this talent doesn’t pack as much value.
You don’t have the haste to necessarily take advantage and it’s also % relative upgrade to what your mastery is.
Templar HoL also applies judgement so between that every 30sec and divine toll and regular judgement I don’t think you pick up until second season at least IF you even do
Herald is a different story with the chance to double cast DS ( does the 30% version consumes a stack?).
Nonetheless for season 1 you’re probably right.
Idk for S2 and S3.
I use both ep and el, those eats up greater judgements like gummy bears lol.
but with divine toll, I can make them last for almost a seconds straight. Almost, just 7-2 minutes without a stack left.
DP also i uses up stacks if it procs.
Edit: I meant seconds, not minutes.
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It does. Which is probably a bad thing.
then there may be a reason to pick up linguring then.
Part of the gameplay means output, which ret is lacking behind.
From a visual identity point of view, only templar has visuals worth mentioning and it still doesnt live up to mages or a handful of the other classes.
And thats before we’ve even began to talk specifically about Lightsmith for Prot/Holy. Big yikes
I did a test with sun herald on beta with highlords wrath along with linguring/RG. We definately get more greater debuffs then we’d ever need with that, I was stacking 10 without even using divine toll o.O
the only issue is when using wake for RG to pop up, if there is multiple targets, dawnlight would choose a random foe to pop off and not your main target.
What is interesting on multiple/single targets, without highlords wrath, we don’t get enough stacks anymore. So either we have more then we need, or not enough.
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Yes, for fun. Because when it comes down to it, the dps classes I used to main back in BC and Wrath stopped being fun. Not because of anything Blizzard did, but simply because I got bored. I started maining my Holy Paladin during the final patch in Wrath and haven’t looked back since.
Sometimes you simply have to accept the class you enjoy most is going to be in a bad spot.
I had good friends who mained Ret Pallies back in BC for that reason, despite lolret.
Playing a game is supposed to be enjoyable, and while being nerfed is annoying, there is no reason to stop playing the way you want just because you aren’t top of the pile, or even in the middle. As long as the class is viable - which it is - then it’s better to have fun playing what you like than being bored with the gameplay of something you don’t.
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No, it doesn’t.
And we can easily prove it.
You’re confusing gameplay with fun which is a much larger encompassing concept.
Ret output could stay literally the same with everyone being behind it and suddenly the “gameplay” would be “amazing” because it already plays great.
That means your output metric has nothing to do with Ret and everything to do with everything else.
Output is tuning.
Tuning have nothing to do with how it’s played.
“How it’s played” is called gameplay.
Does a game like Portal has sub par gameplay since it has literally no output?
You’re talking about fun, which output does influence as a measure of your impact on the rest of the game.
Ur right on the tww ret pvp thing. The nerfs arent doing it any justice and its falling behind. Tbh i dont even think itll be a safe pick unless it gets some buffs next expac.
But in open world and until recently pvp it was a safe pick double boubles, stuns. Heals it was the best of the hybrid dps for sure. Def enjoyed how easy ret was compared to enhance my other main.
Are you sure about that??
When a holy paladin could crack an enemy in a 3s arena so hard with a judgment they lost 33% of their health it was hilariously fun gameplay, due to tuning. Pressing a button only feels good if it does something.
As Retribution, In SL PVP if I got a lucky crit on Divine Toll and it murdered someone for the last 50% of their health, that for me was fun gameplay, due to tuning.
As a MM, before the SS nerf, using buff stacking to remove half of someones health in one cast of SS was fun gameplay due to tuning.
If I had played Druid in SL and could melt every enemy in 40 yards once per min (for some of the expantion) with Convoke the Spirits, that would have been fun gameplay due to tuning.
Long as I have fun pwning people in bgs/wpvp I’m happy. I like ret since I usually only play with my friends when they online and ret gives me access to bursty damage for pvp as well supportive ability’s with the mates. I love ret and have enjoyed it for years.
It seems you can’t go wrong throwing in a paladin for the support ability’s alone imo.
Here is the key word “fun”, which I also address.
Gameplay can be good but the game unfun because of something separate.
For example, I found the gameplay of Minecraft incredible and could go past the graphic but for some the graphic were an absolute non-starter.
Graphic is separate from gameplay but is an equally important part of a game to some.
As such tuning/output is separate from gameplay and is still important but it’s not part of it.
Specifically in your holy example, the tuning made you “feel” powerful and this felt good/fun.
But it didn’t come from you accomplishing something through the mechanics of the class/spec. You pressed one button.
And while it’s not necessarily bad in itself, if it’s all that is fun about it, you’re standing on something pretty fickle and it could quickly become un-fun.
Your enjoyment stem solely from it moving health bars.
To create long lasting enjoyment, this cannot be the sole thing that keeps it fun, you need multiple pillars to support the enjoyment.
You need the visual to be satisfying, you need the sound to convey impact, the gameplay to bring some sense of accomplishment or satisfaction and to visibly see the impact you had.
Those all need to work in concert but they aren’t part of each others.
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I disagree. Colossus Arms warriors have some of the biggest crits in the game. Demolish can crit for waay past some entire health pool. A fully stacked Demolish can almost drop tanks from full health. Even a Colossus Arms warrior’s Mortal Strike is doing like 3 times more damage than Chaos Bolt. And yet the entire spec feels like the most flacid wet noodle imaginable.
If you turn off damage numbers and don’t look at health bars, the spec suddenly makes you feel like you are not only undergeared but also under leveled.
I am not sure if its an animation problem or a gameplay problem. But there is no flow or weight behind anything, at all.
The most eloquently orchestrated rotation that leads to a satisfactory reward, provides desired gameplay if it provides results whether through healing or damage.
If shadowlands demon hunter had the hunt, but it did no damage the gameplay would not have been enjoyed.
You’re using Gameplay to solely describe a rotation, but the results from doing the rotation is what makes it worth doing or not for the player. Individual abilities impact on enemys and teammates affect whether gameplay is desired or cause for quiting the game.