I think you are wrong and you have no power to stop me from this discussion. What are you mad your losing and don’t know how to have a discussion? This isn’t your forums so you don’t get to tell someone they can’t post. Look at your fellow paladins no one else has an issue in this topic talking to me. I’ve told you I have a Ret Paladin and quite enjoy playing her from time to time. Balance is needed in pvp and part of the Ret balance is your DPS is good, your healing not so much.
You have to actually listen to the whole reason why we are complaining, be open minded, and accept reality before your in a discussion. Atm you added nothing to it besides “cry moar pallies” and “play holy lolret” basically.
Lol mad at losing what discussion? I am basically talking to a wall at this point.
True but we all have this funny “ignore” button and completely use it to pretend your mot here with it.
Uh… they do? Some even pointed out your hatred to paladins. Me and ziam seem to be the only ones entertaining you left.
There has to be balance for their to be balance and ret is not balanced. Also considering you’ve stating some falsehoods which i caught on to, i do not think i will beleive this.
I will give one more shot at being constructive. If not, I will be using above mentioned feature.
Im am not saying any false hoods my friend. If everyone here was agreeing with you that would be one thing but most paladins are saying they are ok. Sure they are not the best DPS in PVP but they are able to fight and do what they need to do. Just stop and think for one second if 1 class had everthing, heals, DPS, survival don’t you think everyone in the PVP realm would be jumping on and turning that class into meta in a heartbeat. Its the way of the WoW world.
I dont hate paladins at all I have my own. Only thing I wish is she could be a Worgen, maybe one day thats why I named her Lunrii. (Play on the word Lunar)
I never said that. I said what you are talking about would break the balance of Ret paladin cause your saying you cant heal well… Of course you cant heal well you are a DPS spec. You are also saying no matter what you do its instantly removed… The same thing happens no matter what class your playing. That is nothing unique in PVP. I get dispelled, feared, snared, ect as well. That is the way of PVP. Its a way to balance things. Just imagine if an Arms warrior could stick on you the entire time. Your going to drop and drop fast, so the balance is that an arms warrior gets CCed. And yes I know I talk alot of about Arms… its the spec I play so I use it as it the best referance I know. I dont play fury, and I only rarely do Prot in PVP.
The balance has to be there or everyone will only play 1 class at the end of the day, every class has its strenghts and weaknesses. And the issue we are having is I am trying to point out you are only posting about your weaknesses like if you are unplayable as a Ret paladin and that simply is not true. You will not be the only and best choice out there but you have your own strengths and that is what I am trying to get you to see. If you choose to ignore me so be it. Ill miss chatting with you but that choice is yours and yours alone to make.
No. No you did not, i pointed out what was broken with ret paladins.
You choose to ignore them.
You have not;
Rebutted the fact we need to be in melee dispite the fact most of our skills has range to be effective at all.
FV itself is weak when it is not paired with it’s melee supporting talents. And due to not having a gap closer our effective melee staying power is essentially nil. Freedom is hard countered by CC and purges. Steed is hard countered by CC, in fact fears/some horror effects is extremely effective on it. And while we are hampered by our wheel chair, DK’s get’s a better version of steed that cannot be stopped nearly as easily (like purging our freedom)
Our healing has heavy pvp modifiers rendering them useless beyond LoH. We have effectively 0 self healing. And while we get a talent for a super WoG on self use, WoG has an extremely hravy pvp modifier, making a wasted talent.
We have few snares that is easy to remove. If your herald and pick up the dawnlight snare talent, your basically nerfing it since it will now be fully removed by snare removals.
As this thread is created most paladins relied on templar doing it’s burst, and that tree is being nerfed (although the damage is being relocated really)
Our “utlity” is easily negated, as they are magical buffs/debuffs and can be purged. BoP can be dispelled by a tranquilizing shot even.
Bubble is considered our strentgh but really, it’s not. A warrior or priest can easily remove it. Our other defensives is either so weak attack can remove it (SoV) or has a heavy pvp modifier on it (DP)
The only “strentgh” as you will is having a ranged BoJ and maybe stun. But the stun can be removed by any healer, and BoJ cannot be used frequent enough because, say it with me, it needs us to be in melee for art of war to proc. You know, the melee we can hardly be in when fighting against a competant ranged class or healer.
Our interrupts is justifiably melee. But we have again, no melee staying power.
So what do we have left to bring? A talent that reduces movement skills by 5 seconds when we use our wheel-chair pony? With how low cd most movement skills is, it’s pointless to have. We cannot kill on our own due to how low our damage is outside of HoL, and even then most classes has the self healing to tank it, or the skills to just stay out of our range. We are the number 1 kill target in arena due to how easy to counter paladin defensives. Our utility is garbage. We cannot off-heal. We can’t even do a proper rotation outside of melee. So what is our strentgh? What is ret’s designed to do?
Our role is dps, and we cannot do that in any meaningful capacity in pvp. While I do not think we need MS, we do need more staying power. A gap closer is needed. We are not balanced. Having range is not helping us, in fact using it hurts us at most times. Heck we cannot even use seal of the crusader unless we are in melee. And tell us, with how easy to shut down a paladin and kite them, how are we to do that?
Cause I am sorry, but I’d be lying to myself if I where to say we are strong. And no “play holy” is not the answer. No arms warrior issues (while it should be looked at) is not a rebuttal to this. Ret is the only dps spec paladins has. And needs to feel competetive, not broken.
“It’s easy to play” is also not an answer. As there is numerous easy to play specs in game that can compete.
Here is the thing, we are not even a choice to take into arena. I don’t care if we are the best. We are just not a choice period. We are too handi-capped to take. Why take someone that needs another player to even function when you can take a class that does function, but also has strentghs to add? Ret don’t add anything really.
Your basically doing that to yourself really.
If PVP is the topic of discussion, Protection Paladin is not an opion due to having no defensives if you carry a flag/orb/crystal, and taking way more damage from being a tank, and more damage from the pvp Armor nerf on plate specs, and the ease at which your defensives and mobility are countered, and your low dps. There is not a role in pvp the Protection fills with the state of the game being what it is.
So if you pvp, and play paladin, and don’t want to provide healing, Retribution is your only option. If Retribution is your pick for a dps spec but its mobility, defensives, and Avenging Wrath/Crusade are all very visually telegraphed and easy to counter, you’re going to have a bad time more often than not.
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Specs that heal for more as part of their proper dps rotation tend to live longer and do more healing in a similar lengh match. Fury Warrior and HDH are good examples. When leech and other automatic healing done during an ideal dps rotation for some specs is outpacing the healing Ret can do if it prioritized healing and lost most of its damage to do so we have a problem.
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Yes but once again you’re Ret you’re heals are nerfed because your playing a DPS spec. And not only are you playing a dps spec you’re playing the DPS spec with the most utility in the game. And I get it you can be CCed and dispelled, but so can everyone else in the game its not unique to only paladins.
Question did you play in Shadowlands? And did you try Venthyr for its Shadowstep like ability?
Ret is a hybrid in pve and in spec definition, but not pvp, because the only healing it does in pvp is LoH on a long CD. Its group utility is nice, but is ability to control enemies is not. Rogue might not off heal, but can heal more from Crimson Vial in a BG or Arena match than Ret, while having MANY stuns, invisibility, a strong slow, smoke bomb, MS, disarm, and much more effective mobility including faster base run speed.
Ret healing got nerfed so much, WoG and FoL are wasted GCDs, a Ret is actively sabotaging his team if they are used in combat because they are so weak.
Nothing after you said “but” is true.
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You have no idea about PVP then Deckarcain… LOL Dude Everything I said is done in the name of balance you want to break the balance of Paladin. Just stick to that hunter if you think Paladins are so bad.
PS. I have played a druid for years I know all about hybrid specs and the old tax they used to have in PVP for being said Hybrid. But guess what everyone got tired of it so they removed it a few expansions ago. Hybrid tax hasnt been a thing for years.
Thats the plan, unless it is mathematically correct to play something else like the freshly buffed to the moon Warrior. I’ll play whatever I think is going to help me succeed.
DF season 2 and 3 I loved removing BoP instantly with Tranquilizing Shot from Rets and dropping them in a few globals while having MS and 11 enemy movement tools so the Ret cant reach me. That same month I didnt like how MMs and BM were doing that to my Paladin. We all have choices to make, and those choices will be influenced by tuning and design.
If you think non-hybrids should continue to heal more than hybrid specs, we can continue to disagree, thats fine.
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I dont mind disagreeing in a civil way but dont call me a lair. I am not lying there is no point to me doing that on a fourm.
This was a lie. Ret should not heal less than non hybrid DPS specs because it is a dps spec. Rets healing wasn’t nerfed below most of the dps specs because it is a dps. That would be like saying Prot Paladin is designed and tuned to be the worst pvp tank because it is a tank. Read your own post before you share it with the rest of us please. Either you dont know (ignorance), or you’re intentionally lying. My MM hunter can heal for more in a BG than a Ret, this is the new normal but it is not ok.
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Its 1 am Ill post in the morning. Have a good night.
You lied. Goodnight
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And the trash goes to the block list. Enjoy being bad at hunter as well.
Bad dog newspaper bop
Should have just acknowledged the lack of logic to support Ret doing less healing than most dps specs in pvp while being labeled a hybrid.
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Gonna bring this up here, since well… might as well.
There is a few other things that feels off with ret these days;
Hammer of wrath: feels weak as an execute. Most likely due to how available it is. Please remove it’s proc from FV, availability during wings, and if needed it’s proc from the hero specs to buff it to the strentgh needed to actually have the omph to feel like an execute.
FV/DS on their own deals the same damage as our builders (without greater judgement/dawn). This should never be the case. We need to build to use them and as such needs to have a bigger impact. Removing greater judgement/dawn and putting that damage into our spenders at base can help a bit.
HP generation is crazy high, to a point where some paladins is opting to over cap to sustain their dps. Again this is 2 problems, our spenders doing too little, and 2 of our rotational skills giving 2 hp. While CSSA can help make that a cause, those are the main culprits. Maybe nerf our generation a bit.
Searing light does not proc enough to feel worth taking even with our mastery. It’s a cap talent it should feel strong, but does not, it actually harms us taking it.
RG makes wings too available and rewards crusade too much. Many paladins hates this talent, and due to it’s power it must be taken for most builds. It also elimenates a CD that is supposed to be used on burn phases. Please remove.
Greater judgement does not effect tempest.
They refuse to understand. You should look at the response they gave me when i said warriors had better self healing then ret, while they also refuse to acknoledge our heavy pvp modifier tax.
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Now the question you should be asking is why if they removed the hybrid tax would Ret paladins have such a heavy healing tax? And rather you like the answer or not it’s due to the utility you bring. And yes I know you say all your utility can be messed with, and so can other classes utility. But it’s due to the potential you bring. That is the tax your facing when it comes to your healing as Ret.
Morning btw.
Hybrid tax isn’t something blizzard balanced around for a decade.
And even then, explain druids that seem to be not hampered by said tax.
Also said hybrid tax was also applied to classes that could tank such as warriors and DK’s.
The pvp modifiers had been the same since SL without any adjustments, even when paladins gotten their rework. When they redesigned ret they didn’t touch this at all. In fact we lost several pvp talents since SL with nothing to make up for it with the exception of this upcoming patch.
Utility that is easily canceled by more then half the classes might as well not be utility we bring.
Unlike other classes that also has utility such as monks and DK’s.
Ret can’t heal in pvp except for LoH. The modifiers reducing WoG and flash of light reduces their healing ability by more then half of their pve ability.
Good morning.
Druids are taxed for the fact they are the only class with 4 specs. I know this first hand I’ve had my druid since Vanilla WoW. Is it right to tax anyone in pvp? Probably not but unchecked it would lead to imbalances that would see everyone playing whatever is the most broken and an ez win. I’m not here to fight you guys I just want you to see why the class is treated the way it is. Yes it sucks but there is a reason for it and while I don’t agree with it I understand it.