All other classes can be fun and engaging too. They should work on all other classes and make them good.
Absolutely, I’m just a Paladin player, hence why I’m posting this on behalf of the Paladin class.
I could easily go make a Demo Warlock thread about how much more fun Grimoire: Felguard could be if it summoned in a completely different Demon because I already have a Felguard. The redundancy is boring.
I’m not saying Paladins suck or other classes should not get changes, it’s just my main is a Paladin so my priorities are to make Paladins more fun and engaging. 
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That’s the problem though while yes it would be more fun to have an instant gap closer for paladins it takes away the fun for the other classes. You say steed gets feared, which yes I know it can but only 3 classes in the game to my knowledge have fear, Warlock, warriors and priests. The others can’t slow your horse or fear you.
There is a priest/warrior/mage/shaman every single arena and bg match. Divine shield bop freedom and sanc are always dispelled purged removed shattered.
If youe complain is 1v1 well ret is not the best 1v1 spec in the game.
Also this is a ptr feedback thread and as always got derailed into forum pvp. Ret haters please stay out.
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I don’t hate Ret I have my Ret named Lunrii (Can’t wait to make her a Worgen) if you want to look. I’m just saying both sides need to be looked at or you break the balance.
Ret is already balanced. A tier spec just like the many others. I would put it B but too many would cry
Yeah, I’m sure there would need to be a lot of balancing for it to work out, but that’s just part of the job. =/
We’re not playing classic with #nochanges, whatever has to be done to make the Spec (Class) feel more fun and engaging is probably worth it imo. ¯\ _ (ツ)_/¯
Ill say it I would venture to say they are B+ due the utility any paladins bring to a group. And thats what makes them a jack of all trades.
I mean right now be glad your not on the warrior chopping block. Too much APM they said and they are nefing tanking warrior for that sin. That you know no one was complaining about or asking to be changed. You might be next so I would keep quite and be happy with how things are for the time being. Don’t get me wrong I dont want other classes to not have fun its just like I said you go too hard on stuff and you make one class the master of everything, you will earn the eyes of the devs before long and that nerf bat to bring you back in line will be a huge list that will hurt to read.
PS. You want to know a boring class to play that will make you enjoy what a Paladin brings play a resto druid. Ive done it since Vanilla WoW, its one of the easyest healers in the game and honestly its so easy its almost to the point of boring.
I am pretty sure it’s never fun to be paired with a ret to push their wheel chair.
Pvp is a team game, and right now paladins are too easily countered for other classes. Other then to look at them as bait for the other team to go after (as right now ret is number 1 kill target, simply due to how easy it is to shut them down and kite)
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They are the main kill target due to the utility they bring. You cant tell me you PVP and dont understand how much they are bringing to the table. That kind of power if left unchecked would lead to a loss for the other team so they are going to focus that which is most dangerous first.
Which is none?
Freedom/bop/bospell is dispellable by almost half the classes in the game.
Our stun is the only dispellable stun in game (unless the dh one can be too?)
We have 0 staying on the target power, as steed offers no cc protections and we have no instant hap closer.
Our range is pointless since the ability that has that range don’t have any punch due to the talents requiring us to be in melee to work (EP/DA) as well as EL needing to be in melee too. Wake is short ranged also.
Bubble is dispellable also.
Our healing has pvp modifiers on them to make them useless except for the one tone use LoH which other hybrids can do the same without a CD.
Our snares are spiratic too and not spammable. Heck if you choose herald to have that DoT a snare you are risking allot of pressure from it due to classes with snare removal potential. (By making it dispellable from snare removals)
Our cleanse only works on debuffs that is easily re-applied without CD.
What utility we bring again that is even remotely useful?
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Its still utility brought by the class my friend, its the potential that if left alone it could swing the outcome of the match. That is why they are attacked first.
Utility that other classes brings and better then paladins, which had been stated several times, where as the paladins versions is trash?
Yeah no.
That is not why they are targeted. They are targeted because their defensives and movement skills is trash.
Lets play spot the paladin only player.
Found one!
I think it would be more appropriate for specs with on demand dispells to possess dispellable abilities and for specs like Ret with no dispell to be free from having their kit countered so fast. BoF, BoP, and DS being removed so often and so fast takes a lot of the worth out of the argument that Paladins kit is OP. If everything we do to move or protect our selves and others has a counter applied between instantly to 2 seconds, how useful really is the removed utility?
On the mobility topic, it has been mentioned already, even during times a Ret is not in a CC, its damage is greatly reduced outside of melee range. Any spec with more mobility and CC (most specs that exist) who are ranged, already have a great advantage fighting a Ret, and those that are melee have MS, disarm, invisability, knockbacks, or more CC than Ret or several of them. Getting infinity kited by some ranged is a pain point, even if we might occasionally land a Judgement during all the kiting. Ret damage is not strong enough when we have target uptime to make it worth playing when we often do not have target uptime. It’s popularity comes from the thematics being what players like, not because the toolkit lends to an OP total package if enemies with dispells, mobility, or more CC are present. I do feel there is room to increase Rets damage AND mobility in an effort to make it more viable against what other specs have for design and tuning in 11.1
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I play DK’s, rogue and hunter.
While this paladin is my vanilla charecter, I spent most of WoW maining frost DK. And considering going back due to how poor ret is being handled.
Try again.
Then you should understand that what your complaining about just frankly isn’t true at all. You want Paladin buffed and I understand that but what you guys are asking for would break the balance of the class. Everyone can get stuff dispelled, feared, have to deal with all kind of CC just like everyone else. You cant have one class being the end all be all of WoW and not have balance or no one would play anything but that one class. Now lets try again and remember to take off your rose tinted glasses before you post claiming that Paladins have nothing and are so weak everyone just kills them first. Like I said in PVP you go for the biggest threats first not the weak links.
False.
Because it is true.
Ret paladins is the only melee class in the game that has 0 staying power on their melee target, has in pvp practically 0 utility due to their healing being modified so badly it cannot move meters, dispellable party/self buff & defensives and has an talent tree that works against itself. It is the most pvp-wise poor spec in the game in a class with only one dps spec. Which in blizzards own words stated they should be viable in both pvp and pve due to only said one dps spec. They could not even bother giving ret new pvp talents to replace the ones they removed over the years.
At least as a DK I can do basically almost anything I’d wanted to do with the ret paladin but better. They even are allowing DK’s in pvp to use their anti-magic sheild on other party members and that thing is a powerful absorb! It even has a better steed which is a joke at the expense of paladins. The only thing they don’t have is a sword/board tank spec.
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Arms warriors say hello!
Sorry if the format is jank, on mobile. This line is why its important the Rets Dps spec feel “feature complete” in PvP.
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