Paladin Problems that could use some work. : )

In Development Undermine(d) PTR Discussion
62

allow me to ask, with all due respect. Do you play as main Paladin? ok, we can recognize that there is an imbalance in the proposals. but these are just ideas. They are neither polished nor balanced, just a superficial view of how to improve the class with an emphasis on class fantasy.

But regardless of that, be aware that Paladins have serious class identity problems, like the case of the Holy Paladin, serious problems with performance, efficiency, and freedom of customization, the latter, identical to Rogue Assassination where there is practically only one viable standard build. if you are happy with your class like this. congratulations! we are happy for you. But ours is not delivering the same satisfaction, this must be respected.

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63

Getting rid of steed isn’t the goal…But you’re only happy if we only have steed. While you can intervene to any teammates near where you want to be, and Charge to enemies, and heroic leap.

Having a second mobility option is fine with me, if it is functionally similar to something like what you have, which is functionally similar to what most specs have. Having both a run speed increase and a very fast point a to point b ability would be great, but those that hate the fact that retribution is semi ranged are already mad we can walk faster than normal speed anyway. Adding full on charge or leap type ability to retributions fairly nice duration Steed charges would probably cause some kind of riot in the streets. That’s the only reason I’d be willing to compromise and say, replace steed with a shadowstrike type ability or similar, where my rotation helps me stay with an enemy I can do damage to already.

Retribution is the slowest dps that exists other than enhancement, and enhancement is at least allowed to heal in pvp and not have its burrow dispelled. So expect paladins to ask for some mobility. Bringing up death knights new mobility is just salt in the wound, as it is better than Steed. Since it suppresses snares and roots, someone can say, but Retribution and all paladins have blessing of freedom, okay, cool. So they get the same thing ret gets but it is dispell and spellsteal immune and for 1 less button press and dk has a button to remove stuns and a button to be immune from fears… death night is already designed, but maybe not tuned, to be better than retribution, and probably would be better than warrior also, if it just had mortal strike and disarm, as it already has a fifteen yard range interrupt.

The main reason this keeps coming up from me, is whenever I’m in PVP as retribution, I press steed because I’m trying to go somewhere, but then i’m feared. The fear happens to last the full duration of my steed, and now I’m in the wrong area or dead. The only way for me to stop the fear is trinket or bubble, and as we know, thats what I may possibly possess off CD to get out of CCs that are not a physical stun. So if I burn those on every fear that hits me, I’ll never have them for when real damage comes through. The most fun I have in the game is battlegrounds, especially rated, and using some of the most important abilities for survival to stop a fear from stopping me from doing what i’m supposed to be doing for the objective, is annoying. The very long cooldown defensives that I need to survive also get dispelled nearly always, so I can’t afford to use them just to clear a fear if i’m not simultaneously taking a lot of damage. In 10.0.7 launch Ret was very well compensated for any pvp relevant utility
it did not currently have, possibly too well compansated. It had great tuning granting fantastic survivability and damage. Missing out on really great tools like mortal strike or disarm ecetera didn’t matter, didn’t miss having no invisibility, no knockbacks, or having less pvp friendly crowd control than most specs. But then blizzard took away the survivability and the damage, so now I miss not having all those cool tools other specs have.

64

That’s not true at all. You are not looking at the big picture. Paladins have both a number of ranged attacks as well as melee and they can be used in both instances. If you had the same minimum range limit that Heroic Throw has I would be all for a second gap closer on paladin but as it stands you’re not limited by either close range or a med distance so adding a second gap closer just breaks Paladins.

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The reality is for pvp, if paladin is considered by me to be bad, while marksmanship hunter or frost dk is considered by me to be good, i will just play those good specs and don’t really care If retribution stays in my opinion bad or flawed.

I compare what retribution has to other specs because it has a important place in my heart as it would be my main if I didnt see what it often lacks. When I stopped playing retribution and started playing marskmanship, I gained best in game range, an effective targeted dispel, invisibility, instant mobility, a pet to keep targets in combat so they can’t drink and steal nodes in pvp while I am stunned, and eleven enemy movement tools in the same talent build, instead of the two retribution can have. Removing Blessing of Protection with an instant cast low cooldown tranquilizing shot and nuking the retribution paladin from 70 yards away was satisfying. I experienced what it was like being the paladin that had to deal with the hunter, it’s the only reason I made a hunter.

A second mobility option that’s faster than steed to deal with enemies that want to los often or just move way faster than paladins and cast way more CC on the paladin, could be thought of as compensation for not having invisibility, mortal strike, disarm, more crowd control, teleporting groups of enemies behind walls where they can’t escape, ect ect ect. There’s a lot of cool things that a lot of other specs can do that Paladins don’t see any of in its spellbook.

66

This is why there are classes in a MMO. If you dislike your class that much, try a new class to fulfill your desire. There needs to be a variety and each and every class has their strengths and weaknesses.

If you refuse to play another class, that’s a YOU decision. You can’t complain and ask for unreasonable changes that will brick the game.

If you want paladins to have what all other classes have. Go play a single player game.

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67

Then I guess it’s time you play a Frost DK or MM Hunter.

68

Wonderful. open a topic about this educating the community.

For now, the Paladin community wants improvements. Not unlike the so-called “crying” of the Rogues in the very recent past begging for necessary changes in the class.

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69

Removing Blessing of Protection with an instant cast low cooldown tranquilizing shot and nuking the retribution palatin from 40 yards away was satisfying.

Fixed that for you.

70

Your point is invalid because Rogue is the least played class with the least changes.

You guys want paladin to be broken so you can flex to other players.

Guess what???

When that happens….everyone will leave or change over to paladins and you will have no one to flex to. That’s why you refuse to play a single player game.

71

I don’t know how you think you fixed that for me. Marksmanship can have over a 70 yard range and a quick trap or binding shot and disengage gets me back to that range.

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If he is 70 yards away….why don’t you just LOS him? Why charge in if you’re gonna get kill?

73

There’s a good reason I blocked Bloxle. I know his forum avatar is a goblin, but he knows he’s a troll. He’s really not worth the time.

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My brother Deckarcain, it’s not worth it. He’s arguing in bad faith.

Save your brain cells and walk away.

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75

Oh I know. I will not often argue that marksmanship hunter is op compared to Ret, as I enjoy MM quite a bit when it is. It is just funny when a “keep a target stunned for 30 seconds when it takes 6 seconds to kill someone” rogues argue the pvp nerfed to irrelevance Ret paladin would be op if it could move. Talk about out of touch or acting under bad faith.

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76

Agreed. I mean, he summed up his feelings for us right here…

This tells us all we know about him.

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To be fair to him, I played rogue this season with no success and for no real time amount, but I’ve played rogue before so I know how to, and it’s not great right now.

When during a season, I’m constantly saying, “oh no I got rogued!”, that’s when I know to go hop on my rogue and play some. And I think the last time that was the case was late dragonflight and the beginning of dragon flight. Rogue can have tons of useful tools right now, as always. But the damage isn’t really what I need it to be to be effective with me operating it.

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78

Why?

Because I’m giving a fair and unbiased point of view that doesn’t align with what you want?

But, if I lobby to make paladins broken, you’d be okay with it? Knowing we will screw over all the other classes? WoW is a game we play to have fun and it’s been around for 20 years. We don’t need your desires to destroy the game for your benefit.

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79

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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It doesn’t look like anyone here is a high-end pusher. Like me, you are all casual gamers. It baffles me that, as a casual player, you would lobby this hard to make your class broken. But, then, it makes sense that you want an easy-mode class that’s doing quite well to be even easier for your benefit.

Its understandable that this guy wants a one button - I win class.

81

The threshold of what you think would make retribution so good it’s broken is a lot lower than what we think it would take I suppose.

I couldn’t in good faith suggest going fully back to 10.0.7 launch damage done levels compared to other specs, but there could be a more appropriate middle ground, where damage comes up some, primarily on Final Verdict, so it consistently does more damage than a judgment, and a mobility option. There is a bit of a crowd control versus mobility arms race. Lots of specs got lots of ways to pass out lots of roots, snares, and AoE stuns with little to no effort. Paladin is not one of the classes that gained crowd control strength, duration, or quantity. All the while some specs gained more movement or ways to avoid crowd control that Paladins did not receive. So this arms race of cc versus movement, paladin and priest is definitely behind on.