P2 will cause servers to die

[Fasc-atiesh]

Ahahaha okay

[Negald-aggramar]

@Mootwo-earthfury

Maybe just label the servers that are already heavily imbalanced PVE and have a few actual PVP servers and then faction lock those PVP servers to keep things balanced. That’s better than nothing. The biggest problem is the PVE player perception that they have to be on a PVP server to be competitive even if they hate PVP servers. You’ve said as much.

I guess this would work, but IMO, a server that’s 60/40 or more isn’t salvageable. As it stands right now, that’s three servers. Grobb (barely), Faerlina, and Thunderfury. I supposed they could faction lock those servers. Maybe allow Alliance only transfers to them, but who would make a character there? Who would transfer there? At best, you’d be able to maybe lock them where they are. Also, would people be able to leave if they wanted? What’s to stop all the Alliance from just leaving any of those servers? This is what I meant when I was asking how would that work in practice.

@Mootwo-earthfury

I don’t expect Blizzard to help in any way however. The best I can hope for is one server that actually stays PVP or if that doesn’t happen I just play on the 1% side. Or I play fresh Classic. What are your suggestions for people like me other than saying I’m a dying breed and other unhelpful crap like that?

I have no idea what the answer is. I really don’t mean to come off like a jerk, but it just doesn’t seem like most players are into wPvP enough to structure their game time around it. What I do know is this. If the majority of players don’t want to play the way you want to play, there’s nothing you can really do about that. I prefer to level normally and run the occasional dungeon. However, that doesn’t seem to be the way the majority of people want to play the game.

@Mootwo-earthfury

WoW was built from the RTS games which centered around on faction vs faction fighting. World PVP was very much part of Classic and this was very recently. Some people hated Classic phase 2 and some servers became highly imbalanced but for the most part there was server choice. Having a choice of 99% PVP server and PVE server isn’t really a choice at all. I don’t know why you find it so strange that myself and some others want a core part of what game was built on to exist.

While I didn’t play WC1 and 2, I did play 3. The factions had a truce at the end of that game. So it WoW was really built from that, it would either not have factions, or the factions would not be at war. Yes, wPvP was a part of Classic, but I get the sense that many players weren’t really happy on PvP servers. And you’re right, a one faction PvP server or a PvE server isn’t really a choice, but that does seem to be the way we’re heading.

@Mootwo-earthfury

I don’t know why you find it so strange that myself and some others want a core part of what game was built on to exist.

I don’t find it strange at all. I’m sure there are a lot of people who came back to the game for various reasons, only to find out that the player base has changed, so their particular part of the game either is irrelevant, or non existent. Not to say that wPvP will ever truly be non existent, but it does seem to be shifting to irrelevancy. Here’s another thing to think about. Back in the day, you didn’t have PvE and PvP servers, you had Normal and PvP. To me, that says that Normal, or PvE, was the way the developers expected most players to play the game. Which leads me to my final point. Blizzard has never supported wPvP. They’ve allowed it, even encouraged it, but never supported it like they do BG, or dungeons, or whatever.

[Lukä-pagle]

Weird, transferring to a PVE server some time back makes this a non-issue for my raiding guild.

[Mootwo-earthfury]

Thank you for the long and thoughtful post Negald, I’m going to try to address your points without quoting the whole thing.

@Negald-aggramar

I guess this would work, but IMO, a server that’s 60/40 or more isn’t salvageable. As it stands right now, that’s three servers. Grobb (barely), Faerlina, and Thunderfury. I supposed they could faction lock those servers. Maybe allow Alliance only transfers to them, but who would make a character there? Who would transfer there? At best, you’d be able to maybe lock them where they are. Also, would people be able to leave if they wanted? What’s to stop all the Alliance from just leaving any of those servers? This is what I meant when I was asking how would that work in practice.

These are the servers I’m watching right now but I’m not transferring or rerolling anywhere yet because there’s no guarantee for any server at this time.

I think if this change for a select few servers to PVP (with some faction lock restrictions) did happen while the rest went PVE people would need to be given the choice to leave yes, alliance or horde.

Who would roll/transfer there? I honestly think that if an option existed for players such as myself we would take it. I have zero issues playing the minority faction. Right now those of us who enjoy World PVP are sitting here trying to figure things out. Some of us are simply rerolling/transferring to one of these few servers that look balanced which can lead to disappointment later. A real option doesn’t exist. While I will fully admit that people who enjoy World PVP are a minority it’s not like I’m the only one who feels this way.

I also prefer to level normally and run a few dungeons while leveling. I know altaholics and sometimes I think that people don’t like to level the old fashioned way too. Just because the majority likes to boost doesn’t mean your gameplay is super unique either. You can play the way you enjoy though as long as you make some friends who like dungeons while leveling and enough of these people exist if you look. However, having only PVE servers doesn’t give world PVPers a real choice.

You are correct in that the servers are still called Normal. The good thing is that PVP servers did exist and I was able to enjoy World PVP in Vanilla (where I was actually a lot more into it than I am now believe it or not) and throughout a couple of expansions with the World PVP guild that I ran and then later enjoy it in Classic. Blizzard did put World PVP objectives into multiple expansions to try to encourage World PVP so it’s not fair to say that that was never part of their thought process but yes it was always an afterthought.

As of right now, I do not expect Blizzard to do anything but collect transfer money I’ll do what I can at this point to enjoy the game the way I want and make friends who enjoy the same thing because players like myself are out there.

[Bearhands-faerlina]

World PVP has just never been a thing in WOW… ever. Blizz has even tried to force it a dozen different ways over a dozen plus years and it just never works because its not fun for the vast majority of players… Faction inbalance is an issue… but not because of world pvp or a lack thereof

[Tonkadin-mankrik]

PvE server here, dont care. See you later.

[Mootwo-earthfury]

Yes World PVP has actually been a part of WoW either due to the PVP servers or the objectives they put in. No, it was not the main or only thing the game was focused on and was more like a side thing, and no not everyone likes World PVP, and those players who don’t like it should have played on PVE/Normal servers IMO.

Do you know what was never actually a part of the game at all? Obsessing over speed times and parse numbers on a third-party website. Yet here we are with players that this is all they care about which IMO I care about clearing the content but do not care about this stuff even though some of my guildies love it. That’s because I find it a boring thing to care about.

So everyone has stuff that they like and stuff that they don’t care about.

[Negald-aggramar]

Fair enough. I hope fresh Classic rekindles some desire for wPvP. Hopefully they’ve learned their lesson and won’t repeat phase 2 again. Just in case, it seems like it would be a good idea for a guy like you to roll Alliance from the beginning though.

[Bearhands-faerlina]

@Mootwo-earthfury

Do you know what was never actually a part of the game at all? Obsessing over speed times and parse numbers on a third-party website

That’s literally been part of the game since beta. I’ve always rolled on PVP servers, literally since my very first character. Because I enjoy the ability to PVP in the world, not because I like what people commonly think of as “world pvp.” If a horade character is competing with me for a spawn or something, I at least want the option to gank him and take it. That kinda small-scale stuff is pretty fun.
What’s less fun and inevitably happens is you end up with 20 people camping 2 until the point they literally have to stop playing the game. Not really fun for either side at that point

[Mootwo-earthfury]

@Bearhands-faerlina

I at least want the option to gank him and take it. That kinda small-scale stuff is pretty fun.

This is my favorite part too and I call that World PVP. I want to be able to kill or crowd control half the people at my herb nodes etc since this is a fun part of my gameplay and the extreme toxicity around herbing on PVE servers confirms why I want this. So what’s the real argument then?

I don’t gank and then heavily camp anymore. I did that 15 years ago and find it boring now. Some people like it though so that’s fine.

Either way different people like different things and that’s ok.

[Snucka-sulfuras]

@Bearhands-faerlina

That’s literally been part of the game since beta.

C’mon dude…that’s definitely a stretch. Maybe 5% of the population max was doing this in Vanilla.

And that number is generous even.

[Imaekdps-daggerspine]

Not open free transfers inexplicably, and then close them when they are needed off high pop realms? They could have stayed out of this, it’s not like opening free transfers accomplished anything, mega-servers still exist with insane amounts of layers, it did nothing but kill every other server.

[Dreamsphere-westfall]

Imagine playing on a crap PvP server then complaining about getting killed by all the other neckbearded manchildren.

[Bearhands-faerlina]

Well as someone who lived through the heck of Phase 2 classic on a skewed pvp server… Ive seen that not everyone has your morales. Seeing people literally quit the game because they cant do anything without being ganked for an hour isnt a fun experience for anyone

[Wushinom-benediction]

I liked it

[Bearhands-faerlina]

I dunno maybe, I dont have anything but anecdotes same as you. But I know dps was competitive in Vanilla and we definitely had full-fledged logging sites by TBC

[Wushinom-benediction]

it’s really simple if you dont like being camped don’t roll on a pvp server

[Kaustra-frostmourne]

So you’re saying there will be world pvp? Sounds great, can’t wait

[Negald-aggramar]

@Wushinom-benediction

it’s really simple if you dont like being camped don’t roll on a pvp server

Or stack all your faction on a PvP server. Which is what people are doing.

[Nimbell-whitemane]

lol that’s all the fun. And you definitely can’t compare it with vanilla p2.