Your showing a chart without showing what was selected to be shown or the date which it was taken… Who do you think you’re trying to fool? Bawhahaha Arcane, Affliction, and Sub on top, what a joke.
Warcraft Logs shows a very different chart especially at the time I wrote that. Outlaw was 2nd place, and sill is on Bloodtwister. Outlaw is still about 5% or more than the vast majority of the pack, and is still in the top 5 over all. I still can’t believe you linked a chart with Sub at #3 ROFL, Bawhahahaha. That screen shot has to be weeks old and you tried to pass it off as current, then you want to be taken seriously. ROFL…
Ah, I see, you linked “Normal” not “Heroic” logs. So, you’re linking the worst Outlaw Rogues, not the best.
The raids only been out a week, when else exactly do you think it could even be from? You grade A moron.
The logs I posted are also from Warcraft logs.
I’ll post it again, just for you; Mr. I don’t understand what logs actually mean.
https://i.imgur.com/HsRYkmK.jpeg
https://imgur.com/y2SD5uQ
So, basically, no where even near fury or arcane.
And on the heroic logs you were looking at, based on only 2 days worth of limited data, we’re only slightly above the 3-6 spots. Ergo, we’re upper-mid. Yeah, great.
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Indeed at this point we have to conclude that Rogues need to be vocal and push back against being mid. Rogues are a pure melee DPS and need to have damage tuned a lot higher.
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The only thing I can come up with here is that giving Rogues too much damage typically translates to us absolutely dog walking people in PvP as the xpac progresses and gear gets better.
And to be fair, they have repeatedly nerfed Fury’s damage in order to try and bring it down. So we’re not the only ones getting this treatment.
What I will say is that I’m not terribly concerned for our damage as historically we always do well as gear gets better. I would rather they address other aspects of our class such as survivability and stuff. As has been mentioned in this thread the problem isn’t just our damage. It’s stuff like seriously struggling to do content that other classes easily do and the general lack of utility our class brings that other classes just get at seemingly no cost to their other abilities.
Playing my DH or Monk or Warrior all feels much better then my Rogue even though I have decades of experience with Rogue. It makes me realize how much Rogues get shafted on things.
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Why is it so bad for outlaw to be really good? So strange to me.
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Blizzard is basically incapable of doing small adjustments that don’t entirely kill a spec’s damage profile.
The problem with it being good is that it both leads to people using it to strawman against the issues and bugs obvious in the class, and then inevitably leads to a hammer down to C tier again as Blizzard can’t come up with a number that doesn’t dumpster a class. They intentionally overtuned our numbers right at the expansion launch to create the argument for themselves that “it’s fine, it does good damage”, that way no one cares about the bugs that make playing it feel disgusting.
They also only work on 5% intervals most of the time, sometimes a 2% nerf is perfect to put a class in line. They just don’t understand simple math. It’s hilarious how bad they are at this, after 20 years of the game existing.
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I understand the argument about pvp but they can adjust the damage for pvp environments (bgs/arena) like they do with other classes.
I’m getting hammered in dps by shamans and paladins , hybrid classes. I’m not a top 1% player I am an average rogue green parser. Part of that is that I might screw up a rotation or maybe the crack shot bug happens on the opener or maybe there is downtime from the boss. I feel like the average player or new player is being penalized for logs that mythic raiding 1%ers are doing. If they crush a heroic boss in 4 minutes because they are all pumping that means parses are higher but that should be the case for that rogue who only brings damage to the table. It’s like a league of legends balancing they punish the casuals based off of pro play and that’s not right.
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Because back in BFA Outlaws damage profile was extremely good in dungeons and because M+ trash % count was so much lower you could just shroud everything leading to rogue stacking for multiple seasons. Ever since then it’s been downhill even though that was literally six years ago. It’s also the reason why we’re still screwed by target cap to this day.
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And it wouldn’t be so bad if they even addressed the bugs that we have going on, they don’t even acknowledge that there are crippling bugs that affect the damage we put out.
Daily I see on mmo champion issues getting acknowledged for other classes, dungeons,delves daily. The only thing I see that got addressed for rogue is some death stalker interactions. It’s nonsense. I wouldn’t mind the nerfs so much if they addressed and fixed the other issues but they just put the blinders on and go no, nerf the damage across the board nerf the both main finishers the gimmicky cd and auto attack damage. Disgusting
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I agree with a lot of what people are saying. The juice has to be worth the squeeze for me. I am old now, I can’t keep some of these rotations going. The volume of apm hurt my hands and wrists so much. And to not be rewarded?
However, I think outlaw is performing VERY well at the moment.
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Rogue has always been 2 steps forward 3 steps back, since wrath.
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At this point it’s probably because they quite literally don’t know how to fix the bugs which is probably one of the reasons they’re adding BTE reset upon stealth next month in the .5 patch even though this does nothing to fix the biggest offender bug which is losing ADR duration if you restealth during your Subterfuge window and causing BTE to go on CD if you first GCD it while that’s happening.
It’s been an issue ever since the rework and nothing has been done about it. Nothing has been done about us getting ripped out of stealth even though the devs know what’s causing it because they probably don’t know how to fix it either.
One of the most egregious issues though is the Grappling Hook bug which has been an issue since patch 9.2 which released on 2/22/22. I will not give them any kind of pass on hook when it’s worked fine since its addition until that point and there’s literally no way that they don’t have the code from previous versions of the game to figure out what’s going on with it.
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Correction, 9.1, June 29th 2021.
Korthia was when they started changing the pathing for Heroic leap AND Grapple hook as they shared the same base spell-type back then, as seen here.
A lot of spots in Korthia were basically impossible to use the skill on, but the grapple still functioned half-okay without the breaking bug. They also introduced the stupid restriction on use during Korthia that prevents saving on knockback if your feet are not over terrain. Getting knocked off a platform allowed for awesome self-saves before this garbage patch.
9.2 was when things hit a massive wall and they introduced the line-of-sight breaking, and just never fixed the cooldown loss on it. They LoS break is intentional, as they don’t want us doing cool maneuvers to escape things, and made the skill half unusable from that point on.
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Did not expect to find this many rogue experts with their spot on class analysis on here. I think if blizz listened to even 10% of the pros in here the class will for sure be in a better place instead of catering to those elitists out there playing this broken class in game and skewing the data that only hurt the casuals.
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Good point, the accessibility of rogue must be why they have such soaring play rates.
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I find the LoS aspect kind of infuriating given that I can break LoS by running behind a massive rock or wall during a fight and still get hit by projectiles that pass thru the solid object because when they were fired I was not behind something.
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It’s like we get one decent week in an expansion and then instantly get hit in the face with a nerf bat. Damn…
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Yeah we all called it knowing that numbers don’t matter if the core mechanics are broken or shaky. The numbers will be tuned up and down with nerfs and buffs.
But if the core mechanics are faulty then buffs and nerfs are pointless.
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This feels spot-on to me. For example, warlock, and Rogue were my first characters ever in Wow. I haven’t really played Lock since Wrath, a little in Legion. With this expansion, I started wanting to try lock again. I am maining my rogue, but demo lock is the most fun I have had in a long, long time.
I think Outlaw is super fun but it kills my hands to play.
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After raiding for the first time in years last week as an Outlaw you’re not kidding. My hands were going numb 
. Im in my mid 30s so not a Spring chicken.
I haven’t raided with more intention since the end of WoD. So much for rogue has changed.
Ive played the latest expansions but never thoroughly enough to relearn the specs in the last 5 years after playing some Assassination which its was my main spec with Sub during OG Ulduar release. Last major raid I did was Hellfire Citidel. Oh I raided some Nighthold too.
After a couple weeks its obvious how fast the rotation for Outlaw is compared to say Assassination. Weaving crackshot windows can get chaotic. Miss a Crackshot window the DPS will suffer by 50k-100k if the rotation is interupted for more than 10 seconds average. Hitting dispatch when hitting minimum 5 combo points. Its easy to hit the button faster than the 1 sec GCD and land 1-2 combo point dispatchs which wastes energy and hurts dps.
In contrast Assassination is of course stacking poisons/bleeds which all do dps to mobs constantly as a Dot. Set it and forget it. Along with pounding slightly more bursty powerful envenom crits properly stacked with Darkest night. Timed right envenoms produce 2-3 million dmg Envenoms into the Enemy . Rotation seems to slowdown due to energy costs but substains better than Outlaw thanks to Thistle Tea and pooling. Its more forgiving. I suspect Subtlety is similar but more cooldown management.(symbols?)
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