Other than “feeling special,” why do people care if others have the same gear as them?

Community General Discussion
382

I’ll humor this from the perspective of not even worrying about other players and focus more on the actual game design.

Blizzard has to balance all available content around all available gear. Content that drops 226 loot isn’t tuned for everyone to be in 226, it’s more for 213 geared players.

So if I can get 226 loot from WQs M+ and raids need to drop something higher for me to even be interested in doing that content from a gearing perspective which creates an endless loop of your WQ rewards never being able to match it. And from a challenge perspective the difficulty goes way down if I can enter MCN with full 226 loot. Once I clear it once I’m no longer going to want to run it either.

Then there’s also the simple fact that if I’m a player who sees a WQ with 226 loot that’ll take me 10 minutes to get or I can party up for 30-40 minutes and maybe get something from a dungeon I can’t find a good argument why anyone would pick the dungeon. The joy of running the content likely isn’t enough for most people since while we can have fun with the content a sense of progression is necessary (for most). Unless I am strictly interested in pushing keys I’m going to disregard the dungeons and raids and stock up on WQ rewards. Then when I’m fully geared I’ll ask myself why even bother with the raids?

RPGs are supposed to be a gearing ladder. Different ways to get to the same end goal is fine, but there needs to be some level of difficulty kept in mind when designing rewards. Make something too easy with too lucrative of rewards and your playerbase will gravitate towards it and ignore the hard stuff because it’s not worth it.

383

I don’t think anyone doesn’t want casuals to be able to get better gear. It just becomes a question of when do you get capped because you aren’t willing to go up the ladder anymore. If you decide WQs, M0s and LFR is your end all be all you’re gonna cap quick nor should you be able to spam the same content constantly and continue to get better and better rewards.

Those elitist players you are hating on tend to be pushing content constantly unless they are high end bleeding edge. They clear out heroic raids, then whittle away mythic while pushing M+ keys for better rewards as well. Then the new tier comes out and they start all over. If you’re never full clearing the raid content you’re constantly on that hamster wheel.

384

Exactly. In school - you have other opportunities that have absolutely nothing to do with sports to get a scholarship. I was pointing out why his analogy was wrong.

In wow its not like that. The ONLY opportunity you have to get the highest ilevel gear is a raid(sports). Thats it. And the people who do it are hellbent on preventing anyone else from getting their precious gear.

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385

Which is a dumb thing to do. I’m not one of those “Thou shalt not be able to have any kind of gear” kind of people, however, I do think that gear should be appropriate for the content.

At the same time, I think WQ gear should max out at about 2 ilvl’s below what the current LFR is.

But I also don’t think Mythic+ should be dropping gear equivilant to anything higher than normal raid ilvl.

But that’s just my opinion.

But I also know it’s going to take me a lot longer to get that piece of gear THAT’S ITEMIZED correctly from doing WQ’s than it’s going to take the RNG Gods to decide to deem you worthy of a drop in a raid.

I used to raid myself years ago. Just trust me, ain’t no one trying to gear from WQ’s trying to get into your raids.

386

The reason is because, why should we do M+15 keys when we could just do WQs too?

If WQs gave out gear equivalent to higher difficulty content, then this would kill higher difficulty content overnight… there would literally be zero reason, zero drive, and zero motivation for players to even do this higher difficulty content if these players could just take the path of least resistance to get the same exact gear from far easier sources such as WQs.

Higher difficulty content giving better/best gear is the one and only reason why most players even push themselves to do higher difficulty content.

Are you really that daft to not have realized this?

387

Because why would anyone run a +15 if they could do literally nothing and get the exact same rewards ? It would literally kill that entire section of content as well as there literally wouldn’t be any incentive at all to run it

388

This started getting floated around in the old forums a few years ago (probably a Blizzard seeded thing, since it mysteriously started getting brought up in interviews and talked about on podcasts at the time).

This idea that “back in the day, you’d see a player in Orgrimmar or Stormwind wearing the most amazing-looking epic gear, and you’d stop in your tracks and inspect them to see what the gear was, look up where it came from, and aspire to one day be just like them.”

Absolute bollocks, of course - I doubt more than a paranoid handful of players ever cared - but even then, the general consensus from actual living breathing high-end raiders on podcasts at the time seemed to be “who cares if someone else gets what I got?”

This whole idea of designing (or rather, destroying) the game around raiders and Mythic+ dungeoneers and e-sports types who “don’t want to feel forced” to play the game has decimated the reward structure for lower levels of players.

Now, it’s either “just cosmetic” or you’re told to step up to the big boy table if you want meaningful progression (INCLUDING being allowed to feel powerful in the expansion’s world zones, something that used to be a given when you hit level cap). You find yourself, on Callings in elite zones, running around behind players who’ve managed to outgear the item level scaling, tagging their kills and feeling slightly pathetic instead of a little powerful. Blizzard has effectively told you that your time with the patch is over aside from your assigned role picking up scraps of currency for overpriced cosmetics and collection items.

And once a week they’ll tease you with the hope that you might get something from the world boss you died three times running through pointless elite zones to get to, but don’t worry, you’ll get nothing because you are not worthy.

But be sure to right-click that glorious player you see in Org, choose “inspect” and dream of the stars, pleb! You see that player there? They feel good, because they no longer “feel forced” to play the game!

Oh, wait - you DON’T see them in Org, because all the content they “felt forced” to play has been nerfed into insignificance, and now they just log on to zone into some instances and then log off again.

“World” of Warcraft.

3 Likes
389

really? I would inspect other hunters and would be jelly of their bow and gear…I was never going to get it because i played wow at 400-800ms on a great day.

390

I don’t. I don’t care what any other player has.

But here’s where I get a little salty. I am TIRED of having my funny, enjoyable GD just CONSUMED by threads full of people whining about their gear progression when all they do ingame is WQs.

Seriously.

I don’t feel special because of my gear. It’s a loot drop. I feel special when I get a really rare pet or an achievement that most don’t have because it took a lot of time. I don’t care about my gear except that I NEED IT TO SUCCEED AT THE CONTENT I PLAY.

I need my 213 resto ilvl because I do raiding and M+. I got the gear by working up through raiding and M+. It came from the content, and I use it for bigger content.

If all you do is solo stuff–mission table, world bosses, WQs, callings, Maw dailies, and Torghast…it’s a valid question.

Why do you need more?

What is it that you would like to do ingame that you cannot do without gear like mine (which is the product of 3 months of clearing an entire raid tier, multiple mythic+ runs every week, and 8/10 bosses in the next raid tier? Why do you need gear like mine to do WQ’s?

Why do you assume that the reason we ask you, “Why do you need it?” is because we don’t want you to have what we have? I don’t care what gear you get, and if they put heroic raid ilvl loot into Calling rewards tomorrow, it would not matter to me one jot.

But I am sick to death of people saying they have no path to gear and flooding this forum with it.

Mission Tables give you gear up to 197.
Covenant Gear is upgradeable to 197.
World Bosses drop 207 gear.
Weekly Quests drop 213 gear.
Inscription makes 200 ilvl trinkets you can buy on the AH or make yourself.

You don’t have to set foot in group content of any kind to be entry-level geared for heroic raids (190 and above is what we take into our raid group)

If you’re willing to do LFR, you get even more gear.
If you’re willing to pug normal raids, you get even more gear.
If you’re willing to do random BGs, you get even more–and BETTER–gear.

You have a gearing path that will get you very close to what I’m wearing without forming a guild, keeping people’s needs met, and spending 6 hours per week together raiding plus more hours every week doing dungeons together and learning to time harder and harder keys together.

The question isn’t what’s wrong with me for thinking it’s exhausting to see all these threads complaining about gear. The question is: why are so many solo players who never even touch group content so obsessed with getting higher item level loot, and if they’re so obsessed with getting higher level loot, then why won’t they do the content that drops the loot they so desperately want?

Do you think it will somehow make the game more interesting to have a higher item level? I could AoE grind in the world at 197 just as well as I can at 213 (it’s actually 209 in balance, which is what I do grinding with). Do you think the world content will be more fun? Is it about getting better gear so you can solo more old content? I’m utterly serious because it’s a mystery to me:

What do you think will happen for you if you have gear like mine…or like a mythic raider’s gear?

You realize mythic raiders have gear 5-15 item levels above mine, right? Do you need gear like theirs to be pleased or would mine be good enough? How would that gear make your game more fun or your character more fulfilling to play?

What…do you need it for? That’s a legitimate question.

Honestly, I wish they’d just give it to you so the forum could stop having 15 of these threads every day. Good flippin’ grief!

391

Yes but that is only a small portion of players even out of that group that care about the gear others get.

I do mostly world content and it tooks months to get to be able to get the max ilvl gear from emissaries. My friend could take his fresh max level character and be carried in a few mythic plus dungeons and with loot funnelling he would be geared up in a few hours. I never felt it ruined my game by him doing that.

392

I don’t have a source but I was in a top ten guild and they literally didn’t give a crap about other players gear. They just totally ignored people who weren’t playing at their level or close to their level.

So I believe their statement. It is generally only the wannabees who need to prove something.

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393

So I’m entitled to an NBA Finals championship ring for playing in a pickup game against a bunch of local jabronis at the court near my house? And NBA players should have no beef with that?

That’s not how life works, in video games or otherwise. This is the apotheosis of participation trophy nonsense.

Signed,
A guy who wouldn’t raid regularly with a gun to my mother’s head

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394

So… why is it not reasonable that a similar time investment resulting in gear progression for casual players should be disregarded?

EVERYONE needs gear in the new world of Ion’s item level scaling. Yes, even casual players out in the world.

395

That still is how you feel about things and you are projecting it on to others.

396

Call it whatever you want, this whole perspective of “I should be given better things simply because I want them” is absurd.

397

Absolutely no different from others saying they can’t get them.

Very few people are really wanting mythic raid gear, they just want a progression system and to not have their content made irrelevant all the time if blizzard actually puts anything of value in their content.

Raiders are literally destroying this game for large numbers of players and it is only the ones who think like you.

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398

Well, you can get the Salty and Zookeeper and Crazy Cat Lady titles without gear. You can hunt down secret pets without gear. Why do you need gear to do those things? Those are the special achievements I’m thinking of. Those are the things I’ve done that I’m proud of showing off ingame. My gear isn’t unique or special, and it’ll be gone next patch.

My mounts and pets and titles will still be here. They’ll still be rare, & I’ll still be pleased every time I see them.

Again, I ask you…what do you want the gear for? What will it change about the game for you to have it? How much is enough? Is mine enough or do you need the best gear in the game–like the stuff mythic raiders and 15+ key timers get?

To do what? I’m honestly curious. I’ve been grinding WQ’s and doing the 250 anima elite quests on my own since about 190 ilvl. You can get better than that item level with solo content alone.

What does having a higher item level do for you? What does it get for you?

I don’t mind them giving it to you, but why is the game not fun for you unless you can have it? What will you be able to do with it that you can’t do with the 197, 200, 207, and 213 gear already available to you?

Edited to add: and I forgot about all the BoE stuff from raids on the AH. You can get BoE’s up to like 220, I think? It’s pretty high, whatever the cap is. They’re super expensive, but solo content is highly lucrative. That’s where the gold is. WQ’s, rep chests, and farming/selling? You can buy BoE gear much better than anything I’ve got on.

399

I want it to do world content with, to make The Maw not a horrible experience, to make Torghast not a horrible experience.

And how much is enough? Whatever item level is required to finally rise above Ion’s item level scaling and actually feel like I’m becoming more powerful. To be months into an expansion and still having to tediously whittle down world mobs is the opposite of fun.

As above.

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400

Well. I’m with you there. Ugh.

I never go down there anymore. I do my weekly Torghast and that’s it. I might eventually have to do down there and finish rep with Venari, but I mean. I just don’t go down there.

I feel you on the Maw.

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401

its not about the gear per say but the work to get it.

like if you worked hard to get a tesla model S and suddenly your neighbor wins one in some kind of lotto.

sure youre happy he got a tesla too but a part of you wishes he worked as hard as you to get it :wink: