They don’t get attention by doing this.
I dont think it matters that they practiced - rag was never mechanically difficult
They weren’t wasted, you were still placing points to get deeper into Arcane for the damage talents deeper down. Now you get free Crit on Arcane Explosion while still using it very rarely.
This helps to be sure, but 6% free spell Hit isn’t the difference between a 200 DPS Mage and a 650 DPS Mage, with the former being considered amazing in MC back in the day (because we sucked).
There still are… you have a ton of filler in Arcane to get to Arcane Instability and Arcane Power. The mana talents aren’t even all that valuable when you aren’t fighting for very long.
Very few specs have zero filler now, and I know that Feral is one of the few that can really get meaningful increases out of every single point along with Combat Swords Rogues.
Perhaps, but AoE isn’t a scary thing like it was then. People would just collapse, let Tanks rotate Commanding Shout/Roar, AoE zerg it, done. It would at least add the phase but it wouldn’t alter the difficulty, especially since the phase adds a ton of downtime letting people setup, regen, etc.
The other fights just don’t have phases. Hell the concept of phases only really happened on a select few bosses, and usually only on end-of-raid bosses.
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Yeah, don’t get me wrong the fights are going to be easy no matter what. I would just prefer people see the full fights rather than zergfest it is now.
Hope that makes sense, it shouldn’t change anything beyond time investment
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You’re dancing around my point though. Most of the talents in early vanilla did not help nearly as much as the 1.12 talents do. Even the non-filler “good” talents in early vanilla were considered crappy by 1.12 standards.
Yes, but elemental precision is just ONE example form the talent trees. Another example is the complete lack of ‘threat reduction’ talents in early vanilla. They either weren’t there, didn’t reduce nearly as much threat, or were much further down the trees. And look at Winter’s Chill in early vanilla? Oh, wait, it doesn’t even help for raiding!
Compare the two trees:
www. classicwowtalents. appspot. com/index. html?talent=1124125_8
www. classicwowtalents. appspot. com/index. html?talent=11215875_8
Huge difference.
Now also imagine that healing trees were worse, and tanking trees were worse.
Less damage, less hit, less threat reduction, less healing, less threat generation (for tanks), less survivability. Even if all of those factors were only a little worse, the cumulative effect of them all being worse in early vanilla made a huge difference in how easy MC bosses were.
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Watch this one and see how many times dps had to stop, or melee had to run out/in.
This hunters rotation is Multi Shot and Aimed Shot the entire fight.
Threat mechanics, class comp, updated talent trees, the fixed/nerf to aoe lava damage all play a huge part.
This vid is a 1 submerge kill. They even mention the full run was less than 4 hours to clear it, an hour less than the previous week.
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Outside of Rag, I’m not sure this will be a problem going forward.
- Razorgore has more or less a hardlocked Phase 1 due to shattering eggs with a CD locked ability
- Nefarian’s Phase 2 won’t begin until you kill enough adds, although with our current DPS and Tank savvy, this will be boring
Later fights have sort of soft transitions or the fight just gets harder as it drags on, which won’t be present for the ready-to-raid guilds. Skeram for instance won’t ever be problematic because snagging aggro will be hardly a problem, and Battleguard was always pretty much a zerg anyway.
Noth will likely get killed before porting away the first time. According to a few different sites, the dude only has 1.6mil health (a bit more than Rag), and it takes ~90 sec for him to go to the balcony.
Most of the crappy talents of 1.1 still existed in 1.12, and the biggest offenders were often replaced in trees people didn’t use in PvE. Druids, Paladins, and Rogues are fantastic examples of classes getting big net changes for almost no change at all in PvE.
Not particularly no. The only difference between PvE Frost in 1.1 and 1.12 is 10 Spell Pen from Arcane Subtlety and 6% Spell Hit for the individual Mage. One lone Frost Mage had to go deeper Frost to get the new Winter’s Chill debuff for 5% more Critical Strike for the raid, and that’s it. The other changes, like Evocation going baseline and you getting Armor from Intellect, and the threat changes, are all largely irrelevant.
Look at Druids: they got slightly more mana efficiency, a spell that doesn’t really get used (Swiftmend), and baseline Innervate which doesn’t matter on such short fights.
For Druids, Tanking didn’t change an iota other than threat, which was still better than Warriors because of double multipliers based on damage.
Look at the OP’s video again. Watch what the Rogue is doing. He’s using Feint off CD, not because he has to, but because he thinks that’s what he needs to do because threat in Vanilla WoW was some arcane knowledge that no one could understand. He also isn’t maintaining Slice and Dice, in fact he isn’t even using it. He’s just Sinister Strike spamming between Eviscerates while literally typing in party chat.
Oh and Rag was bugged at that time to allow melee to hit him and never get knocked back if you were at max range.
Some classes definitely saw massive improvements in their DPS, namely Fury Warriors (about 20% of their DPS is Bloodthirst). Everyone else saw minor tweaks or improvements that would not account for 300-400 DPS changes. That’s all play and boss knowledge.
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Then we need to buff the damage requirements and damage of abilities.
Classic wow just seems way too easy…
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And voila we introduce Sunwell and Heroic WotLK style Tank/Healer mechanics, where you gear for maximum EH and Healers gear for “how can I spam nonstop to ensure the Tank is always 100% between hits”
I’m fine with this honestly, most of us lived through that time just fine, we can do it again, but you’re not going to like the changes that have to come to Tanks and Healers to compensate. Warriors right now (in Vanilla) have some significant struggles with massive huge hit mechanics until they’re approaching Druid EH levels more consistently (late-AQ40, early-Naxx).
And I’m only really talking about Tanks and Healers because so much damage is just outright avoidable for the DPS, even in BWL and AQ40. If we start juicing up the raid-wide damage, Healers just don’t have the tools to handle that crap.
If a new server type or Classic+ opens up in the future they could do this. Classic is done, if we want changes we need to post asking for a new server type.
1.12 is vanilla we knew what data set Blizzard was working with. if you dont want 1.12 you can simply stop playing.
I would say it’s safe to expect more of the same with each content release. For example, there are probably already guilds getting ready for the opening of AQ event.
Yeah well for me raiding was most fun during late TBC/ wrath
No, it needs to happen now. Having this content be representative of vanilla is absurd.
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But the problem is THEY ALL SUCKED. At least according to a lot of the Vanilla experts from retail.
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It’s not going to happen, they’re not going to buff content so the casuals have a hard time while the hardcore players are already killing MC bosses in 30 seconds.
So, you’re in essence asking for Vanilla to be more like the expansions where you found raiding the most fun?
They do it in retail
nochanges
go raid mythic and speed run mythic+ in retail for a challenge
you could always run a broken spec, or worse gear and make raids harder that way.
Vanilla/Classic raiding was about the journey, not the destination.
Dont let ‘streamers’ change your playstyle…
Also…play classic without any addons, dont look for any information, dont look at what boss drops what loot, dont read any form of bis gear/quest/dungeon/raid/mechanic guide. Learn everything fresh, from the game.
Dont fall into the trap of taking shortcuts to make your classic experience more realistic.
Yep. But also more similar to vanilla.
I was in catalyst on feathermoon, I was only 14 and brought to their alt raids/ZG but raiding was never this easy before and yes I want to see changes that make classic more similar to vanilla.