Original Ragnaros world first kill was 5 months after release

The game was released in November 2004, and the first kill of Ragnaros was in April of 2005. Here’s a link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=153&v=Br1hXGXJ7Tg

This is the Ragnaros struggle that i remember back in the day.

These guys all had full enchants and lots of tier 1 and barely managed this kill. Note the rogue swapping a fire resist set of gear during adds. I’m sure this guild had been working on Ragnaros for months, acquiring the necessary gear upgrades until they could manage it.

I was hoping that classic would provide the same challenge, but for guilds to be able to kill Ragnaros in 5 days after release demonstrates that classic is very, very different than vanilla.

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Yeah, but everything was new to us then. Now its not.

People have a better understanding of the game so content goes down quicker.

I still personally think this is nerfed content, but it wont change the fact its still easier now than 15 years ago.

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your hopes were too high. anyways, just enjoy the game and stop caring about what the 1% is doing.

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Classic is not Vanilla. It’s not a brand new game. If you expected Classic to have the same learning curve as Vanilla you are in for a rude awakening. Players have had over a decade to perfect and improve their knowledge of the raid. They know a lot more about the gear and enchants. They know a lot more about the mechanics. They know the bare minimum needed to complete the raid. The speed it was done in and the gear and levels of the characters involved proves that.

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Obvisously you have no idea that no one and I mean no one knew anything about anything. Sure that doesn’t matter right? You know everything, best strats, gear and specs.

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i don’t think it’s an issue of familiarity, they were practicing on Rag for months i suspect. Just because this was 2005 doesn’t mean they’re not very knowledgeable.

There are far fewer debuffs on Ragnaros for a start. And it looks like they may not have had epic flasks available. And the heavy use of rogues is unusual, suggesting a really different approach had to be taken.

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I too wish we were all still so bad that we took time to swap gear mid fight.

On paper it sounds so l33t.

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Isn’t the guild who did this from a private server? Who have been min maxing for over 10 years to down the same content?

This is like comparing super Mario speed runs of today to players playing it back then.

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We’re in patch 1.12.

It’s like running an initial BfA raid with the current patch of retail.

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It’s not so much that they may not have known the fight, but theorycrafting was very much still in its infancy then. People had lots of crazy ideas about how to build and play certain classes. There were players that would toss in certain spells just because they had them, not because it was optimal. People wasted a ton of time on things that absolutely in no way helped them.

Absolutely things like talent revamps, better itemization, and extra debuff slots are going to make it easier. However, when Blizzard announced 1.12 as the base we knew MC/Ony would be easy.

Rewind to 2006 and 1.12. I was involved in a weekly PUG run on Shattered Hand that cleared MC in a couple of hours and would down Rag before sons would spawn. We’d blow through ZG, Ony, and even BWL.

Just a year later was an entire world of difference.

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Its 1.12… its not hard anymore as it has been played for years now and the talents are “good”. Warriors are actually used as dps, which wasnt a thing back then, not to mention the 16 debuff slot etc.

Like it would be cleared a lot faster today but not near those clear times we have seen so far.

But ye people here still gonna claim vanilla so ez. Well ye, on its easiest patch tailored to push ppl to 60 for BC.

Everyone who knows this game has said this would happen. There is nothing surprising in the events that unfolded. That also goes for the layer abuse that was pointed out months before release and during beta too.

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I note that Raggy doesn’t have too many mechanics in the first place, and at least one of them, maybe two, wasn’t working in that kill.

Notice the rogues never ran out? I’m pretty sure that’s because they had figured out that if you stood at the edge of the platform, you outranged his knockback ability while still being able to hit him. That was patched later.

Then his Lava Burst ability where he just randomly splashes lava on some people - that wasn’t working either due to a bug. Also patched later (and nerfed at the same time so that he could actually be killed with it working).

So during his tank and spank phase, the only abilities that were actually firing were his tank damage (melee + DoT) and the “nuke casters into the lava” ability. Since we’re looking at it from a rogue’s perspective we can’t see how many casters died but probably a bunch. It took a while to figure out exactly how to minimize the effect of that ability and these guys were the first - who got 1 hour a week on him to practice.

I haven’t seen any hard evidence on whether his melee or DoT were nerfed, but at the end when they’re wiping, he turns around and two shots the rogue, and it doesn’t look like he does much less damage than he did to leather in GRIZZLY’s combat log.

They had more trouble gathering the sons for AoE than APES obviously. Do the same dance for 15 years, you get better at it. I suspect some LFR heroes are going to have trouble with that too, UNLESS Battle Shout spam works in which case it will be an abject joke.

If they wrongly thought they needed FR on everybody that would explain why they took a bit longer to kill him. FR is totally meaningless for melee. For casters, it might give you a little better margin for error on swimming out of the lava. But again that’s the kind of thing you figure out in 15 years of doing the same thing.

And of course they had 1.3 talents and 1.3 items - spirit on warrior gear, etc. They didn’t have healers rocking 200 +heal even if they were wearing full T1.

I don’t really think players now are exactly “better” than back then. It’s a different skill set. This guy we’re watching was clicking and typing about his feelings because he could. Doesn’t mean he would still be doing that if it was a modern raid where Blizz has cleared out all the obstacles and you just need to perfect your choreography.

However I think there’s always two components 1) develop the strategy, 2) execute the strategy. In vanilla raids #1 was by far the harder part - and for a raid that’s been done for 15 years, #1 is quite simply done. That only leaves #2.

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That literally has nothing to do with sub one minute boss kills, happening with raids under forty people, where half of the raid is in greens and under level sixty. If you believe otherwise you’re simply daft.

It should be a little easier now, sure. But we’re are talking about a massive order of magnitude here, to the point of it not even being LFR difficulty. Maybe retail dungeon difficulty. It’s a complete mess, and a joke.

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Absolutely things like talent revamps, better itemization, and extra debuff slots are going to make it easier. However, when Blizzard announced 1.12 as the base we knew MC/Ony would be easy.

Thanks for confirming, yeah I just didn’t realize how much easier 1.12 is, I had no idea until I looked at some of these original videos from MC.

I guess the point will be to just relax in MC, and then hope that the later raids are more challenging as they were released closer to 1.12.

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I am kinda feeling a bit of hurry to get to 60 with both Rag and Onyxia downed, there is a fear inside me that people will complete content fast i will miss it out.

I am feeling scared to miss out content, dunno why

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Comparing patch 1.4.0 to 1.13.2 (aka version based from 1.12.1)

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People still in denial that vanilla raiding was a joke that had no mechanics. Even if the bosses had more health then what is that going to change? It’ll just take slightly longer to kill them. The bosses will still be a joke. Mechanics are what make bosses difficult. Not just increasing their health or damage output. That is nothing but a gear check.

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:+1: A voice of reason, crying out in the wilderness.

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It will be far from the 1%

The point of classic is to emulate vanilla, they need to at least buff the health of dungeon and raids…

The content experience is the furthest thing possible from real vanilla.

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I read through some posts after following that link - there were claims that rag had an ability that HIT for 6k.

I couldnt find anything in current combat logs of him doing anywhere near that amount of damage, but it was interesting so see the amount of mitigated damage from fire resist on the tank, yet healers needed none and had enough from fire protection pot.

The understanding back then was the entire raid needed 300+ FR, today we see only tanks need that amount, melee dps needs a little (or the FR buff) and a pot and ranged need a pot. This allows dps to output higher amounts of damage and healers able to heal better with better mana regen.

Dont forget to think about class talent trees, abilities/spells all in the ‘best working state’ from vanilla.

Bis gear also adds a greater impact today - dps warriors using might shoulders? Rogue using sharpening stones?

I remember clearing out MC weekly without pots/food buffs/flasks/fr buffs and 2h tanking it with a 31/20 pvp spec, an OEB and running pvp type gear (high stam/ap/crit) hoping bosses would crit me to keep enrage up.

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