That video really didn’t look like a “struggle”. People are running around like chickens with their heads cut off during sons, he is stopping to chat with his friends in the middle of the fight, he is using pointless abilities like feint, and he is also clicking.
Not to mention they are also all typing in the middle of a boss, with no voice chat.
Ragnaros was also heavily bugged and overtuned for the first several months after release.
just because information is available doesn’t mean people read or research. 70% of the people I see in pugs are worse then I remember. This is the pre burning crusade patch it’s a joke. Classic is wasted potential.
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and some people are trying to wave away the video evidence we have that players in world first guilds weren’t all they were cracked up to be back in 2004-2006.
but hey, I guess it doesn’t matter that they were being far less than optimal because after over a month of wiping the boss eventually died, right?
That’s “progression” apparently: Slamming your head into the brick wall until the brick wall gives way, not finding better ways of getting through the wall.
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The nice thing about us posting on our mains is that I can pit my AOTC against your 7/8 and conclude that I know how to down her better than you. Suffice to say, though, that trash isnt the only barrier to that end point is just one that I mentioned. We could go down the list including ilvl, and in that regard I’m more progressed than you, as well.
And yes, that’s even more true in m+.
Im not really sure what you are referring to?
I was responding to a post that said modern raids have trash harder than the bosses which is pretty laughable from all perspectives.
Which is part of why I thought maybe he meant mythic+.
Because people are actually running around with BiS gear and not using garbage purples that drop from the raid or useless fire resist gear. A frost mage in full spellpower gear does WAY more damage than one that has gear loaded with int and fire resist. This is an MMO where your gear increases your damage by a ridiculous amount.
Stats like Spirit, Int, and mp5 are useless if you can brute force and do so much damage where missing out on a bit of max mana and such is not an actual problem. When bosses actually have larger health pools MAYBE there will be a need for those stats, but as it stands now those are not necessary.
Keep in mind even IN VANILLA people were doing 20 man MC split runs for more loot. The bosses are not at all tuned for 40 people with an IQ above 50.
Yes they were doing that but not in the first weeks of the game…that’s the part you continue to gloss over.
The change was not whether people could look something up on the internet, it’s because loot didn’t drop like it’s doing now, the loot was different, and the numbers are different.
Everyone keeps accusing me of tinfoiling so I’ll tell you what my actual conspiracy is : were on 1.12 because that’s what the pservers were on and that’s what Blizz repurposed for Classic…straight from the pserver community itself.
Anyone who had played in a pserver knows exactly what I’m talking about when I say we are playing on a fun server.
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That post was written by a BFA AOTC raid leader and I stand by what I wrote on my classic toon brewbeard since you missed that we are the same human.
Incidentally, there is no BFA boss requiring 700 pulls. That was only true for world first on mythic and its not even true for mythic now. The first 6 bosses aren’t even worth talking about since the forums are filled with concerns over the difficulty curve of EP (or lack rather).
Its beyond ridiculous to compare mythic raiding to classic. Try LFR, which admittedly got do have more experience in there than I have so I’m have to concede I don’t really know the state of LFR.
When Ragnaros was first downed in Vanilla, there was a huge controversy over the use of “soft enrage” mechanics. Basically the MMO community was used to Everquest, where a raid executed properly could survive indefinitely. When this community got to Ragnaros everyone was trying to outlast the encounter, and it took a while for people to figure out that the only way to kill him was to rush dps before you got a third spawn of adds.
So they went into the raid with 5 months of knowledge, experience, and testing. Now we’re going into the same raid with 15 years of knowledge, experience, and testing.
I hope the silver lining there is pretty obvious to people.
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Wait, what?
You are standing by your statement that there is trash in EP right now harder than the bosses? Especially end bosses?
And your appeal to authority is AOTC (which is laughable) because you killed heroic azhara and i havent, despite my aotc on the other 3 raids in BfA?
I mean, AOTC isnt impressive, for either of us, but calling trash in raids harder than bosses takes a lot of mental gymnastics.
Also Uunat was > 700 pulls for at least the top 3 guilds (stopped reporting it/paying attention after that).
I would agree mythic or even heroic is not comparable to classic.
Its not about trying to impress you. The fact is I’ve killed her and you haven’t so by definition that should make me more of an authority of her difficulty relative to the rest of what it took to get to her, yeah?
The talents and gear people had in that video are completely different. We do not have progressive itemization and we have fixed 1.12 talents. That is why it is so much easier.
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Well, not really when you say stupid things.
What specific trash pull do you feel is harder than heroic Azhara to enlighten me?
Its like if I said Heroic Jaina is easier than LFR Mother and since ive killed her i know better.
Aka rediculous.
Except most of the loot presently available now was available before BWL was released. The 0.5 sets are not until phase 5. Yes, there are slight itemization between Classic as it stands and 1.4, but most of the big changes are not going to be here until phase 5.
Also, people were not doing that in the first weeks of the game because people were leveling super slow. No quest markers. No Thottbot until people actually did the quests the first time.
Classic is a solved game. Idk why people keep trying to dodge that. Optimal leveling paths have been figured out for years now and none of it has to do with layering or whatever since the difference in time from 1-60 layer hopping as a frost mage and simply doing spellcleave groups until your eyes bleed is probably less than 24 hours. AKA negligible at best considering the difference between 4 and 5 days compared to the 14+ it probably took back in 2005 is not worth talking about.
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You’re being pedantic. I was being hyperbolic for effect. What I originally said was that the progression up to the final boss is where all the work is…even in modern raids. You want to sum progression as the pulls on a boss or the trash so I used an exaggerated point to highlight the fact that preparing for the raid is more work than doing the raid. Always has been the case from my memory.
In Classic many of us predicted this would happen. We explained the raid itself was not difficult but that at least you have to level, gear up, and build a huge team to get in there which what we said was missing from current wow and hoped this would fill that gap.
Instead, pugs are just completely skipping the entire progression path into MC and people want to chalk it up to all these randos are just better in every way when all of the evidence points to players as a whole being worse and more casual than they used to be. This problem is stuck with us for the duration if classic because Blizz doesnt want to devote development to maintaining an appropriate progression curve, which absolutely existed in Vanilla, and instead tries to pawn this off as our fault under the no changes mantra.
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All this talk about speed leveling would be relevant in a discussion about a raid that required you to be max level to clear the final boss but that’s not the game we’ve been given and for some reason youre going to defend that crap.
So we can clear MC at level 25? How about 30? The difference between upper 50s and 60 is largely negligible when your BiS gear can be equipped AT THE LATEST level 58. The big thing you gain at level 60 is the ability to equip raid gear which, as stated multiple times, is utter garbage in MC compared to gear from other sources.
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She’s literally all of the previous bosses’ mechanics and they are literally the previous expansions mechanics. So without trying to type out all the specifics on my phone I’ll just leave it as downing her was simple once people saw the mechanics. Thats what those pulls are for…they aren’t practice theyre about seeing what happens next as the raid team digs deeper and deeper into the encounter.
Again the work is in getting to that point not the actual execution.
Alright dude no need to have a go at me over my opinions.