Steamrolled, yes, but ideally you’d still need 40 appropriately geared, at level players to clear the raid. What we have now is trivial content being even more trivialized where the raid itself is a meme 
This is the issue people are having…why do you think we didn’t Sim back then or have bis lists and builds?
The tools used today by the elites were developed by mouthbreathers according to the lore of ye ole Raiders.
At level players probably, but I doubt if most players are going to be capable of repeating that feat anyway even in 1.12.
They’d be appropriately geared in the sense they’ll be using the correct stats, but I doubt even in 1.1 they would need pre-raid BiS or anything approaching that.
Molten Core isn’t trivial because of 1.12. Molten Core is trivial because of how it was built.
The only thing that would make it not trivial would be a retuning of the numbers(which brings about some other issues, but that’s another topic).
Because if people back then were able to sim you would see examples like that ROGUE IN THE OP use Slice and Dice once or not use Feint constantly. You are also assuming that blizzard’s API was as open as it is now.
Also, sim’s only do something if you know what you are looking for. I sincerely doubt you saw a lot of warriors running around with a level 51 quest reward and a dagger in the off hand back in 2005.
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As I said before, MC was downed by a private server guild that has had MC on lolfarm for the last decade. They didn’t even have to bring all 60’s. Many of them were 55.
They know the fights, literally, inside and out. They know the gear, literally, inside and out. They know the leveling, the consumables, everything… inside and out. I know a lot of posters in here think they’re hot $h*t.
You’re not.
Not compared to these people in thisarena.
Method isn’t hot $h*t compared to these people. You ain’t Method… so you REALLY don’t compare. Imagine playing the same damn game for sooooooooooo many years that your community invents new ways to challenge one another using the same rules. Cleared MC? Do it with a full raid of 55’s. Did it with a full raid of 55’s, donit with a full raid of 55’s only using greens. Etc etc.
THATS what these private servers are like. THOSE are the kinda guilds that are on your servers. And no, you can’t get an invite to these guilds because guess what, you’re just another retail pleb playing in THEIR backyard. Now imagine all of that knowledge and all of that experience and THEN add the fact that you’re playing a game released in 2004 on servers, ISPs and personal hardware for today’s gaming environment.
How is it so difficult to believe?
I really don’t get the tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. I simply don’t.
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No one cares about APES. Fullblown PUGs have been clearing MC the past two weeks.
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Yes, it was trivialized long before 1.12 just like all old content is trivialized by Blizz when new tiers come out. It didn’t start our trivial. lmao.
This is the strange argument people are coming up with. Instead of acknowledging that the content became easier through progession like the entire game has been developed for the past fifteen years, the argument has morphed into early players were just idiotically bumbling into world and server first achievements. The critique should fall on Blizz for refusing to acknowledge this and devote adequate development dollars to figuring a solution to what many of us predicted would happen.
Instead they’ve just released it in this sorry miss match of non progression, isn’t even necessary or desired, and that turns an already thin game into irrelevance, which threatens the long term viability of it.
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[quote=“Medaax-area-52, post:447, topic:304593, full:true”]
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Sorry, can’t make out what you said. I don’t speak retail avatar.
XD
Blizz’ API add more open then than now. I’m not assuming it, I was there and you can Google that instead of taking my word for it. But at least you’re honest in that you didn’t play back then which is more than I can say for roughly half the people opining in this thread.
Your entire post is nothing but hyperbole and assumptions. You have no idea what percentage of players knew anything about their class or the game at large.
Anecdotal evidence isn’t factual evidence pal.
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The first kill of Rag had a Rogue spamming Feint and wasting more than few CPs while talking crap in party chat to a Druid who was mindlessly casting Wrath.
No act required… we have proof people were.
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I already said it was a combination of things.
but we also have a video of world first rag kill and the Rogue isn’t using basic abilities like Slice and Dice. That’s one of the top DPS Rogues in the raid, too.
So yeah: Maybe those top players in 2005 weren’t as good at the game as some people are suggesting they were.
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And said rogue was their raids #2 dps…
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Then why were boss mods not a thing?
Why weren’t warriors rocking Thrash Blades?
Why did people insist on using gear FROM molten core when dungeon gear is better for most slots?
For having everything available to them they should have been able to figure out right? I mean they spent MONTHS in molten core and yet you are telling me they were utilizing sims with the second best dps being a rogue straight up doing like 30% less dps for never hitting Slice and Dice?
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Because for the umpteenth time the boss was the easiest part. Even in current raids trash is arguably harder than the bosses. Most Raiders fell asleep in raids. The toons in that vid didn’t have to squeeze every ounce of deeps from their talents because, as you see, they downed the boss. No one was minutes on their heels because the tough part was outside the raid. The work had already been done by the time you get to that one rogue not playing as optimally as you think he should in order to down the boss he literally downed before anyone else in the world.
The problem is the game is in a state now where all of that gating can simply be circumvented except I guess for the still difficult task of gathering enough bodies to do it…which I guess will become some kind of check as the population dwindles.
DBM and bigwigs were a thing! Obviously they weren’t during the beginning because what wasnt a thing was ptr.
You’ll have to use your brain as to why we used raid gear to progress the raid…same reason we do it now, it’s got special stuff to deal with the special stuff. You don’t need it now because either or was never necessary and people were too dumb to know it or the content isn’t throwing as much special stuff at the players that it used to.
So the video in question is the first pull they had on Rag? You said the boss is the easiest part right? I sincerely doubt that Rag’s first death 4 months into the game had zero progression behind it. What was the pull count? 10? 20? 50? You are saying the ends justify the means, but they very well could have been pulling Rag a total of like 5 hours or more before that video was made which is quite difficult since you only had an hour to work with at a time.
Ragnaros lasted for 74 days after Majordomo was first downed, meaning that guild was stuck on Ragnaros for a while.
You’re telling me that during all those wipes, nobody ever thought “Hey, maybe we not willingly sacrifice 1/3 of our auto attack DPS as Rogues?”. The boss wasn’t going down for the longest time.
You can try to argue that trash is harder, but bosses were the things that created walls for raids back in the day.
Guilds didn’t get stuck clearing a few Lava Surgers for nearly a month and a half.
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I hope you mean high key dungeons, because for raids this is so far off base its insane.
Modern end bosses are 300-700 pull fights.
It seems like you’re trying to argue with me but underscoring my point…if course that MC had tons of progression leading up to it. Just like now, the final pulls of the final boss is the least amount of that work.
The problem were trying to highlight is there is next to zero progression required for a current MC clear and we see it as a problem.
Some people are trying to wave that problem away by rewriting history claiming old raids didn’t need progression but players were too dumb to realize it.
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