Why don’t we wait until the mortals catch up and see how they do when they start raiding. I’m still not going to expect this raid to be as challenging as it was when we were all noobians.
You underscored my point…all the prep and expertise was stuffed by exploiting the game and not due to skill.
Hindsight is 20-20.
You can look at how people use to do gymnastics, how they ran, or what was done in the high jump.
And guess what - in the future, people will look at you and laugh at some of the things you currently think is correct.
When they do, and your response is ‘well, we followed what was the best advice at the time’, I hope the person doesnt respond with ‘no, you were just stupid”
Consider clicking and key turning.
There were huge debates on the forums on whether key binding was truly better than clicking.
Ditto for key turning, initially the argument was seen as so dumb that wowcrendor even made a video about it - making fun of people saying to avoid key turning!
Like I said, hindsight is 20-20.
I would be incredibly surprised to see ANY raid that is able to be full cleared not be full cleared within 24 hours assuming servers don’t blow up.
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MC wasn’t downed by exploiting. MC was downed by skill and knowing the game in and out. World First lvl 60 was done by exploiting.
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Sure thing…
I LITERALLY just explained how but if you wanna live in a perpetual state of victimhood and abuse, ignorance is bliss bro.
I bet you even say those people who’ve been playing arcade games for the last 30 years only got those high scores because they jacked the console.
Whatever man, keep rockin that tinfoil hat.
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Kel’thuzad will be killed within 24 hours guaranteed, I’m going to have some popcorn made to watch the outrage once it happens.
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I like how everyone acts like people were just strait up retarded in 2005.
No, we knew about as much as players do who clear new content in retail. Maybe some of you were trash players and are projecting that onto others, but a high number of players knew how their class worked and how the fights work.
The difference is in the fact that we have better specs available at an earlier point in the game, the content was nerfed and doesn’t represent the difficulty of the real progression, and on top of that we have people that also no life the game for the past 15 years.
All of this not to mention the affect layering has had on the game for the rest of our play experience.
Layering and it’s consiquences have been a disaster for the game.
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I will challenge that assertion, a minority of players were good at this game and that is why only a minority of guilds actually made it into Naxx.
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A lot of people told y’all that endgame content would get steamrolled, and it is. The later releases will as well, and by then no more excuses will be available.
Lots of familiarity, better hardware, and precious few boss mechanics.
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I was in a naxx progression guild and can tell you that the reason nobody cleared naxx is because TBC became known extremely shortly after naxx came out.
Many of my guildies quit until the next expansion the moment they heard the level cap would increase and everything would be useless.
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I get the idea that we figure out new or better things as time goes on, but we’re not talking about finding something complex or something that we simply couldn’t calculate correctly back then.
We’re talking about not using a basic ability with a static amount of IAS, or weapons with no casting stats being used on a healer. Those aren’t difficult calculations for theorycrafters in 2005 to make.
I get them not knowing about things like MCP, but this is like watching a Mage spam fire spells at Rag and going “He’s doing the best he can with the knowledge he has!”.
If that’s the best knowledge they had, the people giving the knowledge were pretty bad even accounting for the time that it was.
and I’ve seen plenty of archived theorycrafting. I know they weren’t that bad at figuring it out.
You didn’t make it that far unless you were good at the game, those were the ones who knew the game inside and out. I would also add guilds who were finishing off AQ40, they would still be a minority. I’m quite certain that most players never got past Ony, Molten Core, and ZG.
Um. You do realize that Classic released with classes and class abilities set to their 1.12.1 versions. Right?
Seriously, go look through the patch notes of that era. Things worked waaaay differently back when Rag was first downed.
I see your point, but I also wonder how all the top players thought threat was an issue … and were wrong? Im convinced some of the choices reflected the issues they were facing, and if those issues are absent in classic, were they just figments of their imagination?
Instead im convinced that while players are more knowlegeable, these fights cant also be identical to what the first players faced.
Someone said people didnt even know to stop standing in fire, which is equivalent to saying players didnt even know they should avoid damage? I find that hard to believe.
A mage spamming frostbolt over and over doesnt scream to me a player who is so much more brilliant than 15 years ago. The main change Ive seen is teams bringing 32 mages.
If you think 32 mages in a raid is a healthy vanilla experience and a redlection of true genious … 
The whoke thread is basically people who agree with you versus those why deny it.
Personally, I think players do know more, but 1.12 also makes it easier
I’ll agree that players probably weren’t that dumb that they didn’t know to avoid damage. At least not the world first guild players.
That’s the same as my example of a mage spamming fire spells at a fire immune thing. That’s just common sense. You don’t even need theorycrafting to tell you that standing in the fire is bad.
All in all, it’s likely to be a combination of many things.
We do know a few things that we simply didn’t know about back then. Characters in 1.12 are a bit stronger than in 1.1. Current top players are at the very least more concerned with min/maxing if not simply better than top players in 2005. Most raid fights did undergo some kind of change. We’ve had 15 years to practice these fights.
That’s a big reason why I often say that even reverting back to 100% authentic 1.1 wouldn’t prevent T1 raids from being steamrolled. The fact that the fight is easier in 1.12 is only 1 part of a rather large puzzle.
I don’t deny that 1.12 made it easier, but I do reject the idea that it’s only because of 1.12 that the fights are being downed this easily. That would require a power boost to players in the range of 3-4x as much.
and that simply didn’t happen entirely because of patch changes.
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It’s always so cringe worthy when people of middling intelligence harp on other people’s grammar because they think it makes them look smart.
A mage spamming frostbolt 15 years ago did probably 66% or less damage compared to a mage spamming frostbolt now. The theorycrafting has been done. People 15 years ago didn’t run simulations. They thought “oo purple good” instead of using actual BiS lists that have now been theorized. “Why would I ever use these gloves with no stats besides spellpower”?
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