I’m old enough to remember when the word “meme” was coined by Richard Dawkins and yes, I do use the word.
My crusty memory leads me to remember guilds were doing this in vanilla…two years into the game.
I don’t think it’s accurate to argue we could always do that, however, and it’s similarly incorrect to attribute the differences to skill alone.
At least some reason people geared themselves in certain ways then was for the fun of it since it was very much an RPG then in ways it isn’t anymore.
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???
Hello?
Tell me what Blizzard did to give everyone one last chance to see all the end-game content (catch up) before the expansion released.
But what is your point, exactly?
It’s very easy to see how performance has changed over time in sports, for example.
People are able to do things now that weren’t possible previously, while new strategies and techniques emerge.
When Lebron James pased Michal Jordan’s record of scoring at least 10 points in consecutive games, does that mean Michal Jordan sucked?
Hussaib Bolt broke a world record for the 100 meters - does that mean all runners before him were bad?
Because they ARE the best players at that time. They did all the things we currently do (theorycraft, parse, compare strategies) and the strategies observed are those that were developed. The consistency observed across teams reflects people following the advice and guides they were given.
Are you making the argument that Ian and Elitist Jerks were all bad players?
The guild that did it in Classic has killed Rag on private servers something like 200 times. To them it was just another raid day. You can’t expect people to struggle with something they’ve had on farm for 10 years.
Wait - is that what they actually mean when they say meme?
(Yes, I’m old).
So when they say Paladin DPS is a meme, they mean Paladin DPS is a joke?
I always thought “meme” replaced “cliché”, as in “that’s such a cliché”
I’m on my phone and not prepared to walk you through all of the patch changes, but by way of comparison of you create a lvl 1 toon in BFA you can hit 120 in about three days or less (fresh account, no 'looms) and be raid ready by ilvl reqs at least in another day or so of farming if timed with the resets and Warfronts.
Similarly with Legion…and that’s when I came back to wow after leaving end of TBC but I’d be surprised if that hasnt been the pattern through the entire history of the game.
This was before class buffs and stuff. The version of WOW we’re playing is the TBC pre-patch. Why is this so difficult for you and others to understand?
Calling them “bad” is probably the wrong term for all the reasons you are stating.
They did the best they could with the info they had at the time.
Relative to 15 years of theorycrafting, experimenting, simming, etc we just have more correct and vetted information available. It makes their choices look bad relative to what we know now.
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Yes, meme spec means joke spec in this context.
I’m sure not everybody was terrible but the videos show that very clearly some people in those guilds were legitimately bad.
How else do you explain basic things like trying to heal with Sulfuras? Did 2005 theorycrafting suggest that chance on hit to deal fire damage was great for healing people or something?
We’re not talking about weird things like farming MCP from Gnomer for a 50% attack speed buff on a level 30 weapon. We’re talking about basic theorycrafting things like “Maybe maintain Slice and Dice” or “Put Shamans in your melee group for Windfury”.
If not the players, then the people who made those guides were pretty bad at the time if they were saying those were the best things to do.
So I’m calling one of them bad. Take your pick as to which =P
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The dissatisfaction stems from players brute forcing the game instead of theorizing a better solution…unless brute force is the better math solution but that’s going to feel hollow.
They had at max 5 months of experience playing wow. People now have more than 14 years of experience.
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No one argued that back then but the content wasnt hard enough to warrant how current players min max the game. Players swung sulf because it was a badass weapon and fit their pally fantasy. You’d see this in retail if we didn’t have transmog.
There are some things I distinctly remember being difficult for the time that simply aren’t in Classic, so the game has definitely changed and/or been made easier. For example, the Hakkar Egg quest in ST used to be a constant barrage of mobs with barely any time to rest in between spawns, and elite dragons popping up much more often trying to desummon him. When I did it recently, you’re able to clear the whole room and rest between each set of spawns. It wasn’t difficult at all, and was perhaps streamlined to what the event was intended to be… or maybe that’s just an excuse to make things easier because maybe it was too hard.
At any rate, I don’t think anyone would argue that there have been significant changes to wow since launch, good or bad, intended or unintended, but clearly if Classic ends up failing (like some Blizzard people would seem to think is a possibility) then they really have no one to blame but themselves, because they’re obviously still stuck in the mindset that everything has to be accessible to everyone, and I’m sure many people would argue the death of wow, at least to them, was that the game was forcefully made casual to appeal to as many players as possible, which is not what I think most classic/vanilla players wanted.
To add on this, raids were initially intended to be very hard, and they were only supposed to be tackled by the most dedicated guilds, and maybe even some guilds that spent a lot of time gearing, discussing, planning and what not, but rarely was there ever a PUG back at launch, because the content was just not simple enough for the random person that really didn’t know what was going on, and it took practice. This mindset I think has corrupted the game in a bad way, because now everything has to be open to everyone, which is where wow is currently. There is no “elite guilds” anymore, there’s a set of people who are dedicated to the game, and then the rest that play when they can, and they all can complete the content if given the time to try.
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They were able to kill rag with a rogue in FR gear, using Feint, and 2nd on DPS all while typing to his friend in ALL CAPS how much fun he was having.
Was MC really that hard? Probably not.
But I simply disagree with saying we’re smarter than they were.
They were simply wanting to play a new game while we are wanting to play a 15 year old game. Who’s the idiots here?
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Classic/vanilla = same thing.
The problem is that they launched this at 1.12 with all talent buffs and nerfed raid difficulty. This wasn’t the normal difficulty. It was nerfed to this right before BC launched so late comers could get some content done before it was obsolete forever. It was never the normal experience. You would think they’d want to launch the original difficulty, but no. Instead they decided to go with original mount costs. So on 1 hand, they stuck to 1.12, but on the other hand, refused to do so. Too bad it wasn’t the other way around, original difficulty, 1.12 mount costs. That would have made a hell of lot more sense. But either way, 1.12 wasn’t most of the game. It was only the last few months of classic.
But people back then also…
Didn’t know how to reach 60 in 3 days.
Didn’t know how to gear.
Didn’t know the boss mechanics.
Didn’t know how to play their class.
Didn’t know how to unlock Rag.
And so on…
I agree, that’s why I was more concerned watching a certain streamer.
Here was the strategy for Onyxia:
-Dont stand in deep breath
-Spam Frostbolt and ignore threat
-Have the entire raid team be only hunters, mages, warriors, priests, and paladins.
They cleared it, and I wish I could say it was due to skill . . . I can’t.
That’s why I don’t understand when people say the players today are so much better. How? By ignoring threat and pressing one button over and over?
Two years into the game Rag was on farm by pugs.