A lot of people used ML, in fact after a few weeks ML became statistically better to use then personal loot.
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I’m keeping in mind that you didn’t refute the point that it was their fault to begin with if that happened.
Also you have no metric to determine how many people were getting “ninja’d” in raids. I put that in parenthesis because that implies that the loot was theirs to begin with.
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You are missing the point of the thread. This is about GUILD groups. ML hasn’t been in pugs for years. If a guild is ninja looting from its own members then it won’t be a raiding guild for long.
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yes?
I honestly feel like this was a silly question.
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It wasn’t entirely their fault.
There were little to no personal loot groups to join and ML groups were all too often taking people’s gear.
This wasn’t just a PUG issue. This was an internal issue among a guild’s own members.
Now it’s not.
World First race was just completed and this was a non-issue.
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Maybe I just got lucky, but when I was raiding in a guild that used ML,we never had a problem with favoritism or anything like that. We /rolled for the pieces we wanted and that was it. If it was a huge upgrade for someone and marginal for someone else, we all generally agreed it should go to who needed it most.
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Lord have mercy do we really need another thread of lfr pro fliers telling ML supporters how terrible they are for wanting more options?
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The problems of guilds stealing gear and all of that stuff you see people say is why ML is toxic is less about the system and more about the people. If you have a raid council giving themselves all of the gear they are corrupt. You don’t blame the system, you blame them.
In an MMORPG loot should always be the players to control. If I want to give my upgrade away I should be able to. ML should have always been an option for guild groups. When you walk into a Mythic Raid you need to accept the lockout, the same should be the case for guild raids. When you walk in you are asked “do you agree to this loot system” if you click yes you are zoned in, if you say no you are zoned out.
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I agree. Game seems to be getting put on rails more and more as the expansions come out. They need to let the PLAYERS decide how they want to play the game and those who do not enjoy the ML system could find like-minded guilds that use Personal.
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ml was a non issue in pugs if i remember correctly cause after so many pugs in a group it became pl.
i dont know where youre getting your numbers from your previous posts either.
sound more like to me people joined groups without having the loot rules explained to them or did have them explained and felt entitled to the loot.
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You obviously have no idea how a mythic guild works so please just stop with the nonsense. Because the best guilds in the world were able to circumvent the forced personal loot by having multiple alts, spamming M+ for 15 hours a day, buying millions worth of BOE’s, and class stacking heroic with mains/alts doesn’t mean it’s a good system.
This change hurts the Heroic/Mythic guilds who raid 3-6 hours a week the most. We don’t have 5 alts or 15 hours a week to spam M+ for titanforges so we can trade loot in raid. We have a limited time and need to not waste loot when it drops.
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i am in full support of flying and to a lesser extent lfr. i am in full support of all looting options , including those where i get all the loot ![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
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It was an issue.
There were multiple threads continuously on the forums about gear getting ninja’ed. Not only did I see it and experience it, but plenty of other people did as well.
Also, it was enough of an issue that it made it to Blizz with enough consistency, regularity, and urgency that they felt the need to remove master loot from the game.
To act like it wasn’t a problem and Blizz just up and decided to drop master loot, that’s silly.
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Im here to tell you right now, i can 100% tell you with certenty ML was NOT removed because of guild ninja looters or favoritism. If you are buying into that you are a fool. Because you cant sit there and honestly tell me that after 14 years, of having ML, and 14 years of Ninja looters, blizzard NOW just decided to pull ML.
No ML was removed for one very simple reason: It slows down progress. ML was statistically better after the first few weeks of raids. Personal at the start was great because everyone needs the gear, so anyone who would get it, its gonna be an upgrade, but after that, ML is better since ML gives guaranteed loot. With ML you were guaranteed to get at least ~4 items with ML there is a good chance no one gets anything. ML was removed simply because it slows down the game. Not because of Ninja looters.
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At the very least it cut the split farms to minimums if that’s what you’re hoping to point to.
Titanforging is the reason for the M+ spam not Master Loot.
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Ninja looting was not an issue after pugs were forced to use PL. A guild group using ML cannot ninja gear because it all belongs to the councils choice in distribution.
Sure Ninja was bad back in Wrath. It was a non issue in legion. This was an unneeded change.
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Nah not that big of a difference at all.
Actually more pieces in the beginning.
It didn’t cut down split runs at all. The top guilds still ran Heroic 7 or more times on the first week. You can see their clears on WowProgress. The only reason split runs were inflated in Legion was because of Legendaries.
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No there is a very big difference. In the beginning yes, its better, but after a few weeks ML becomes FAR better for a raid group.
If you have 2 arms warriors one with a 340 weapon, and one with a 355 weapon and the warrior with a 355 gets a warforged 360 version, any raid guild would have given that to the warrior with a 340 weapon, to further raid progress, rather then giving it to a warrior with a 355 item. Thats the issue with personal loot.
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this.
either change the loot trading restrictions, or give guild groups back ml.
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