Oh well we trie

[Jackalswind-eonar]

@Allieddeath-blackrock

No, Jackalswind. 50 days? 200 days? Nope, you’ll need at least 259 days played or your Hunter Card is revoked.

Hah, nice one. If I took everything I put into Paladin and converted it into Hunter, that’ll get me back on. But it’s a sad story that DF is the bad expansion that it is(still 50% off even after summer sale until the 17th!).

But maybe I can make up for it in Classic…

@Bepples-frostmourne

This is a weird thing to bring up, but if it makes you feel better I have a Bachelor of Science. Not from some “diploma mill” but from the University of Sydney.

Sydney, Australia, yea? That’s good. It showed from you. That’s two people here that went. I have an Associate’s in three science-related fields. Going for the Bachelor’s… that’s another story.

@Bepples-frostmourne

For example, controlled variables: you can’t make extrapolations about level 70 Hunter performance based on testing against a level 60 Hunter. There are too many variables that are different, and any one of those can influence the results you’re seeing. You can only have one independent variable at a time.

Too many? A 60 vs. a 70 in DF? Just ten levels? 5 missing talents from the spec tree?

You might be right about the science, but it’s the PHILOSOPHY of it I struggle with. We didn’t even get into the tier set bonus yet: the Deathblow system. “Oh, I want my precious ~ -4.5 sec AShot recharge firing plinking rounds! I’ll PLINK the boss to death while everyone else does the real killing work!”

Meanwhile, this semi-retired special operator is trying to show how to go for the magnum…

@Allieddeath-blackrock

Ah, so he finally admits the truth. I’ve always had faith in him.

Do I win the Heath Ledger Joker award btw? Maybe I have a way of showing people what they really are…

He’s not wrong at the root cause of it, though. But as the saying goes, “The devil is in the details.” If there’s a way, a loophole to be exploited, it can and will be to get out of using melee abilities as SV. And the revamp just might help things along…

@Felforsale-illidan

…you need help.

Edit: I’ll entertain the possibility this is epic roleplay as well. If so, /bow.

Some of it is fluff, but there’s crunch too. Do you know how many times it’s been that I keep seeing discounts for DF as well as free trial sessions? It’s as if I’m being BEGGED to come back. And I look at all the cute white cat faces. It’s all nicey-dicey now. How can a Hunter be a true Hunter?

I know it’s sad that raid leaders and dungeoneers could use a Hunter of my background. Well, it’s sad that I could get reported and then banned in the next instant over an in-game drama fight and lose it all. It is what it is. I guess DF being 50% off won’t break my heart? Some ancillary things to consider. Just like Don Shipley, I can safely train and advise Hunters, specifically MMs.

[Asthelon-area-52]

@Bepples-frostmourne

Such a melee style for BM should be a talented option; not the baseline state of the spec.

Yeah, it’d be really cool if BM had talent options for both since the main focus is the pet. MM would be Range only, SV melee only, and BM can do both. It’s practically melee already anyway

@Bepples-frostmourne

Only clueless newer developers

Disagree with this assessment, you’re pretending these “new developers” had ultimate authority for these ideas. Besides, older devs also made bad choices. Bit of an odd thing to say

@Bepples-frostmourne

This “better identity” has caused it to become a pariah that most people avoid.

Or do you think that’s because it doesn’t have unique utility and up until the last few years wasn’t even tuned particularly powerful?

@Bepples-frostmourne

I have to wonder what cohesive identity puts bombs and pet-based attacks in the same toolkit.

I don’t see how these two conflict?

@Bepples-frostmourne

In all of WoW’s formative and most successful years, SV was a successful ranged spec.

In all of Wow’s formative and most successful years, Internet was DSL or worse, there was less social media, and the game was extremely simple mechanically. Causation, correlation, etc.

@Bepples-frostmourne

Which is still 4 years away, by the way, despite revisionist claims to the contrary.

2 years, no? Unless you’re counting all the melee talents and abilities in vanilla as not existing?

@Bepples-frostmourne

The ranged pressure and influence is always there,

Much like the pet “pressure and influence” is on MM, blocking off parts of the talent tree or any cool pet mechanics from the class itself.

@Bepples-frostmourne

Whereas Wildfire Bomb is closely tied to the utilitarian munitioneer nature of a Hunter.

Right? Really glad they knocked such a cool ability out of the park for the coolest Hunter spec.

@Bepples-frostmourne

No because Rogues don’t use ranged weapons like Hunters do

Pistol Shot, Between the Eyes…

They could easily whip out a side eye for any of those abilities. Not really unique to Hunter conceptually.

@Bepples-frostmourne

Wow it performs better yet still Hunters avoid it and play MM instead.

Some Hunters play MM, yes? What are you trying to say here?

@Bepples-frostmourne

typically when people think of the depth of gameplay it could provide they think of spread cleave and dots.

Such an incredibly unique concept in the game. What if there were Druid, Priest, and Warlock specs that all did DoTs and spread cleave too?

@Bepples-frostmourne

Looking forward to another 7 years of SV being abandoned

If SV is abandoned what’s that say about BM and MM? Boring tier sets, bad talent trees…

@Bepples-frostmourne

Believe it or not doing a bit less DPS would be more tolerable to most Hunters than not being ranged, by virtue of common sens

“If you can do less DPS you can be ranged again! Ignore the fact that you have two ranged DPS specs on the class already, and ignore the fact that you don’t bring any utility…”

[Woödsy-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

Sydney, Australia, yea? That’s good. It showed from you. That’s two people here that went. I have an Associate’s in three science-related fields. Going for the Bachelor’s… that’s another story.

Weird that you’re still harping on about university, I am currently doing a bachelor of psychological science and you talk about diploma mills and only have an associates? Maybe if you had the bachelors you’d understand the scientific method and stop spewing such crap.

@Jackalswind-eonar

You might be right about the science, but it’s the PHILOSOPHY of it I struggle with. We didn’t even get into the tier set bonus yet: the Deathblow system. “Oh, I want my precious ~ -4.5 sec AShot recharge firing plinking rounds! I’ll PLINK the boss to death while everyone else does the real killing work!”

Meanwhile, this semi-retired special operator is trying to show how to go for the magnum…

Yeah this is just you rping and has nothing to do with how the numbers work.

[Jackalswind-eonar]

@Asthelon-area-52

Yeah, it’d be really cool if BM had talent options for both since the main focus is the pet. MM would be Range only, SV melee only, and BM can do both. It’s practically melee already anyway

I had even argued in favor of a fourth spec once. Druids, though technically had three, were considered a four-spec class. So while I wasn’t a friend to MSV, I could go across the aisle and work something out.

It’s too bad that plan got nowhere…or did it?

@Asthelon-area-52

Disagree with this assessment, you’re pretending these “new developers” had ultimate authority for these ideas. Besides, older devs also made bad choices. Bit of an odd thing to say

I can’t deny this because nobody knows this better than Paladins, though I’d like to think that the newer developers actually did GOOD by them. But sadly, at least back then, they were the authority.

Paladins want to DPS? SCREW YOU, give me Kings.
Paladins want to tank? SCREW YOU, give me Kings.
Paladins want to heal? Give me Kings first before I replace you.

@Asthelon-area-52

Or do you think that’s because it doesn’t have unique utility and up until the last few years wasn’t even tuned particularly powerful?

Both points are true. It was a pariah that didn’t have anything unique and powerful to bring to the table, until 9.2.5 when I was asked to go SV every time I was invited to M+ and getting the “impossibru” treatment.

@Asthelon-area-52

I don’t see how these two conflict?

I thought I did a good job of demonstrating it. It can conflict when you can SPECIALIZE in doing those attacks only…from (Verne Troyer voice) rrrraaanged.

@Asthelon-area-52

In all of Wow’s formative and most successful years, Internet was DSL or worse, there was less social media, and the game was extremely simple mechanically. Causation, correlation, etc.

Back when you really had to know your stuff the hard way! Less GROUP THINK, less “this so-and-so said so”.

@Asthelon-area-52

2 years, no? Unless you’re counting all the melee talents and abilities in vanilla as not existing?

As I got to 60 on Classic, they might as well NOT exist. And even when a Hance and a Ret handed my butt to me in Searing Gorge in the mid 50’s level as soon as they got in my dead zone. It was embarrassing last two weeks in my play then.

@Asthelon-area-52

Right? Really glad they knocked such a cool ability out of the park for the coolest Hunter spec.

And you were so much against Godstalkers, right? Forget that it was an “unhealthy rotation that spammed a focus generator”, you were spamming MIRV nades. It doesn’t get much more bussin’ than that. 9.2.5 was when they knocked it out of the park. My M+ inviters then LOVED THE CRAP out of it.

@Asthelon-area-52

Some Hunters play MM, yes? What are you trying to say here?

I’m surprised that those raiding are about 110,000. That’s a starting number, but I was surprised there were that many MMs.

@Asthelon-area-52

If SV is abandoned what’s that say about BM and MM? Boring tier sets, bad talent trees…

If BM gets touched inappropriately, you can kiss the Hunter class goodbye. That’s the last bastion. Because if BM goes south, they’re not migrating to MM or SV. Might as well delete the class.

@Asthelon-area-52

“If you can do less DPS you can be ranged again! Ignore the fact that you have two ranged DPS specs on the class already, and ignore the fact that you don’t bring any utility…”

Isn’t it funny how I was exploring that here? I was actually hoping that doing RSV would be just “a bit less DPS”, that the disparity would be small enough for government work.

@Woödsy-frostmourne

Weird that you’re still harping on about university, I am currently doing a bachelor of psychological science and you talk about diploma mills and only have an associates? Maybe if you had the bachelors you’d understand the scientific method and stop spewing such crap.

I don’t have a bachelor’s, but I actually went to a non-party-it-up place though. Long story short, Calculus I gave me some trouble. Otherwise I was going to be a control instrumentation engineer. Ah well…

Because the university and community colleges I took classes from, were not the places you went to party. Simple as. I had to make that distinction clear because if you told me you went to the University of Texas as opposed to the University of Houston, I would not be convinced you would be better trained and disciplined as if you went to the latter.

@Woödsy-frostmourne

Yeah this is just you rping and has nothing to do with how the numbers work.

I don’t want to hurl insults like “plinker”. “Oh, hey, don’t take Bepples’ or Woodsy’s advice. They’re plinkers.” I don’t want to be like that. You want to shoot .22’s? That’s cool. I brought my .460 Weatherby here…

You two want to hurt varmints with that idea of a get-up? Fine. I’ll hunt lions and bears.

But this is more of the real talk: I haven’t forgotten about AGILITY either. Agility TRUMPS everything, and it is LINEAR. So the higher up you go in ilvl, the more Agi. But when you’re LACKING Agi–such as this pleb here would if he was 70 right now–you have to COMPENSATE. Haste and Crit with dumpy Msty and Vers is NOT going to cut it. Raidbots cannot guarantee anything; for a program that’s on the dumber side of things, it’s at least smart enough to put the actual responsibility in your hands.

[Woödsy-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

I don’t have a bachelor’s, but I actually went to a non-party-it-up place though. Long story short, Calculus I gave me some trouble. Otherwise I was going to be a control instrumentation engineer. Ah well…

Because the university and community colleges I took classes from, were not the places you went to party. Simple as. I had to make that distinction clear because if you told me you went to the University of Texas as opposed to the University of Houston, I would not be convinced you would be better trained and disciplined as if you went to the latter.

Weird take given that someone with a Bachelors from the university of Houston would be more educated than you. Calculus giving you trouble doesn’t surprise me given your lack of understanding of math.

@Jackalswind-eonar

I don’t want to hurl insults like “plinker”. “Oh, hey, don’t take Bepples’ or Woodsy’s advice. They’re plinkers.” I don’t want to be like that. You want to shoot .22’s? That’s cool. I brought my .460 Weatherby here…

You two want to hurt varmints with that idea of a get-up? Fine. I’ll hunt lions and bears.

But this is more of the real talk: I haven’t forgotten about AGILITY either. Agility TRUMPS everything, and it is LINEAR. So the higher up you go in ilvl, the more Agi. But when you’re LACKING Agi–such as this pleb here would if he was 70 right now–you have to COMPENSATE. Haste and Crit with dumpy Msty and Vers is NOT going to cut it. Raidbots cannot guarantee anything; for a program that’s on the dumber side of things, it’s at least smart enough to put the actual responsibility in your hands.

Again this is just you rping pretending to know anything you should stop its cringe and makes you look like even more of an idiot than you are already.

[Jackalswind-eonar]

@Woödsy-frostmourne

Weird take given that someone with a Bachelors from the university of Houston would be more educated than you. Calculus giving you trouble doesn’t surprise me given your lack of understanding of math.

And weird that I already acknowledged the role of the primary stat. Again, I didn’t go to college/university to party it up…

I almost feel like nobody checked this stuff before I came around. But again, that’s the difference between a real post-secondary school and a diploma mill. It makes me look more like Dr. Malcolm from Jurassic Park, who was actually a math doctor.

[Jackalswind-eonar]

The nerve on this guy. Still hatewatching me to this day! I got to be doing a WHOLE LOT BETTER than I took for granted. *The more insults I get, the more that makes me right.

Edit: I got more to add. For someone who can’t let it go, he would have been of an Alliance(albeit not the same Alliance I played and dealt with as this goblin), but it was the ALLIANCE that MOPED, WHINED, and CRIED about WPvP. Simple as. Same faction though different server types.

Griefs, you’re esoterically part of the reason I cannot even APPLY Hunter class play in DF and in this time. And the Alliance has always been more narcissistic. I’ve known this since the days TBC was Retail. With AOO and 30% WM bonus(which FINALLY disappeared currently), Chromie Time, and xfaction guilding and grouping, Blizzard kept catering to the crybaby faction. After TBC I got tired of it, and I did my part to bring the Alliance to its very knees in its last days on Retail.

One can only hope that Microsoft will change this around somehow with a new vision. And that goes for the full monty. Everything, to include Hunter class. And I hope they will have new directives for those who want to do nothing but act like mewling puppies when they don’t get THEIR way.

I’m ashamed that most of the senior Hunters are not on my side. Oh well. Some have an open mind, so it’s not all bad. This rework coming soon™ may very well be a “Come to the Light” moment for many. Instead of sticking up for our fellow Hunter and trying to sympathize with their plight, they want to ridicule them. That’s not how I roll. Ever.

[Jackalswind-eonar]

@Woödsy-frostmourne

You acknowledging primary stat means nothing when you do it while spewing out complete garbage.

Because it’s ME saying it, right? Oh, but if it’s your favorite celebrity…

Dude, I don’t care who you worship, even if it’s me. You can keep that personality cult stuff to yourself.

*Hey, you got a problem with me? It’s okay: you can be honest. You got a problem with me.

@Woödsy-frostmourne

I’ve said it a few times now but seriously man get a grip.

It’s because people like you and the others keep tripping up and guess what? The REAL subject matter experts aren’t even here stopping the spin.

“Oh, I can’t believe he doesn’t drink from the same stream as the rest of us. He’s dumb because he’s out of the loop of the group think.”

I’m glad.

[Woödsy-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

Because it’s ME saying it, right? Oh, but if it’s your favorite celebrity…

No because its wrong, I don’t care who its coming from I care because its blatantly incorrect.

@Jackalswind-eonar

It’s because people like you and the others keep tripping up

Point out where I’ll wait

[Jackalswind-eonar]

@Woödsy-frostmourne

No because its wrong, I don’t care who its coming from I care because its blatantly incorrect.

No, you just don’t like hearing it. It challenges you unwelcomingly.

@Woödsy-frostmourne

Point out where I’ll wait

I’m not giving. That’s enough from you.

[Woödsy-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

No, you just don’t like hearing it. It challenges you unwelcomingly.

Nothing you type is challenging whats already established because you have no evidence and nothing of substance to support your claims. You have to realise surely how ridiculous you sound. Its like if I walked into your work place and told you that xyz is correct and if if you think I’m wrong you just aren’t seeing it right.

@Jackalswind-eonar

I’m not giving. That’s enough from you.

You do this every time because you have nothing to back it up. You are so full of crap and truly insane.

[Jackalswind-eonar]

You’re just being a bully and using intimidation tactics that have no relevancy to those that are confident enough to hold their own. It’s the same toxic hardcore elitist stuff we’ve seen for years.

[Woödsy-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

confident enough to hold their own.

Yes I agree that you are confidently incorrect which is what I’ve been trying to point out the entire time. I’ve just been calling out what I see and if that upsets you I think you should sit down and have a think as to why.

[Jackalswind-eonar]

I’m only upset because I’m being attacked without provocation. You better believe I’m going to arm up and hit back. Not to mention that nothing of what you’re doing is helping the real situation at hand. I’m only sharing with people what I know, what has worked best, and good ol’ fashioned wisdom and common sense. Take it, leave it, or just shut up. You and some others had to make it into a confrontation.

[Woödsy-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

I’m only sharing with people what I know, what has worked best, and good ol’ fashioned wisdom and common sense. Take it, leave it, or just shut up.

No thanks I’m going to point out that its wrong and advise people not to listen to you although I’m sure anyone with some common sense can work that out.

@Jackalswind-eonar

You and some others had to make it into a confrontation.

I’ve simply been replying to what you’ve been putting out dude

[Jackalswind-eonar]

@Woödsy-frostmourne

No thanks I’m going to point out that its wrong and advise people not to listen to you although I’m sure anyone with some common sense can work that out.

Then let that stand on its own merit, but you’re afraid that what I have will benefit them more. I can easily take that as body language that you’re a patsy.

@Woödsy-frostmourne

I’ve simply been replying to what you’ve been putting out dude

Besides being against MSVs, I wasn’t here to pick a fight. Because the real truth can defend itself. Even so, I never stopped talking about the talent reworks and hopefully how we might be able to weather the new support role change. But I just don’t go around slamming people to “constantly prove themselves”. I don’t care. Knowledge is power. Google is your friend. PRACTICE. LEARN. GIT GUD.

[Woödsy-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

Then let that stand on its own merit, but you’re afraid that what I have will benefit them more. I can easily take that as body language that you’re a patsy.

I mostly do let it stand on its own merit I was simply contesting what you had to say as it was derailing the argument with complete garbage that you spew out.

@Jackalswind-eonar

But I just don’t go around slamming people to “constantly prove themselves”. I don’t care. Knowledge is power. Google is your friend. PRACTICE. LEARN. GIT GUD.

You literally had a whole ramble about you need x amount of days played to get a hello from you. Knowledge is power that’s why I’m doing well for myself and you are completely clueless. I hope maybe you too can find this knowledge and who knows maybe you finally get the itch to play DF and can actually get good enough to clear a raid.

[Jackalswind-eonar]

@Woödsy-frostmourne

I mostly do let it stand on its own merit I was simply contesting what you had to say as it was derailing the argument with complete garbage that you spew out.

And why me? What do you have against me? Can’t we settle this another way or something?

@Woödsy-frostmourne

You literally had a whole ramble about you need x amount of days played to get a hello from you.

What did I mean by that exactly? I thought I made that clear.

@Woödsy-frostmourne

Knowledge is power that’s why I’m doing well for myself and you are completely clueless.

Subjective use of “well”. I’m doing great too. Enjoying Classic and farming gold on Retail. I’m not sweating anything from my position here, my dude. I regret and lament the times of Retail, however, but that’s for those still left.

@Woödsy-frostmourne

I hope maybe you too can find this knowledge and who knows maybe you finally get the itch to play DF and can actually get good enough to clear a raid.

I’m still paying attention and looking at it. Again, the 50% discount spam…not looking good. Very sus.

[Woödsy-frostmourne]

@Jackalswind-eonar

And why me? What do you have against me? Can’t we settle this another way or something?

I have nothing against you I sometimes challenge misinformation on the hunter discord too I just pick my battles based on the time I have and how bored I am. We can settle it based on math I’ll show you my raidbots and what I do and why it’s right.

@Jackalswind-eonar

Subjective use of “well

Yeah the word is subjective by nature but my parses and prog speak for themselves.

[Jackalswind-eonar]

@Woödsy-frostmourne

I have nothing against you I sometimes challenge misinformation on the hunter discord too I just pick my battles based on the time I have and how bored I am. We can settle it based on math I’ll show you my raidbots and what I do and why it’s right.

That’s too bad I won’t touch DF for almost the longest time, depending on some things. But you could yourself and I a favor and go ahead and look at the top 1% and see where you measure up. I bet it would be very embarrassing if the best parser is doing something more similar to what I advised. VERY. EMBARRASSING.

In fact, I should be talking to that guy. I should be aiming far higher for discourse.

@Woödsy-frostmourne

Yeah the word is subjective by nature but my parses and prog speak for themselves.

I mentioned outcome-based education before. Hey, it kills the bosses, we have it on farm, hey…I don’t need to git gudder. To save energy or whatever, I just need to do the necessary minimum.

Coolio, we should all say. But if you got a Glad hot on your butt like a hornet out in the field…