Not only is this whole thread from you one of the worst cases of Dunning Kreuger I’ve ever seen, but this right here is an absolutely awful approach to pretty much anything.
The ability to share established knowledge is critical. No one person is ever going to figure out everything on their own. One of the biggest telltale signs of inexperienced players who think far too highly of themselves is the belief that sharing guides and theorycrafting is bad and good players “do their own research”. It’s the other way around. Sharing knowledge, peer review, and coming to consensus is optimal.
As for relevant content: to be blunt, world PvP doesn’t mean anything at all. This is coming from someone who does it and random battlegrounds a lot. The skill and gear gaps are enormous. Most of the people you’re fighting aren’t paying attention much less playing optimally. Writing off all PvE as easy/repetitive/whatever while promoting unrated PvP as where the real skill lies means exactly what Woodsy says: you’re out of touch.
P.S. Here are Woodsy’s logs from the raid. That 99 figure you see on most of those bosses means he performed better than 99% of MM Hunters. So his gearing and playstyle approach is absolutely correct. Simming is very accessible and advanced now. Forget about stat weights. Raidbots will simulate a character thousands of time with different combinations of gear and tell you exactly how much DPS you stand to gain from any upgrade. It even has configurable contexts like enemy targets, phases, M+ routes, raid buffs and cooldowns, etc. There is NO CHANCE you will ever out-think raidbots when it comes to gearing. No, don’t say “but it’s PvE and that’s easymode”. It’s not. You wouldn’t have high profile world first races and highly exclusive cutting edge raiding if it was easymode. It’s some of the most challenging and intricate content any videogame has to offer.
In MoP they seriously contemplated making Demonology a tank spec before saying exactly what Ion said in the latest interview: it’s not right to rework away people’s specs from under them (before you make up even more false equivalences like Shadow Priest: I mean reworking across entire roles). That was only a couple years before newer developers decided Survival should be an exception. Design directions and philosophies can change; especially when the staff changes.
We are overdue for a leadership change because Hazzikostas has an awful tendency to run things into the ground and double down on mistakes. Survival is just one small example. The man more or less sabotaged the last two expansions. He has a long history of drumming up complete non issues and “fixing” them with over-engineered and poorly-thought-out solutions that only make things worse. He went nuts over “spec identity” and implemented several systems back-to-back across Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands that were poorly designed, poorly implemented, and ultimately made all three expansions drastically worse (namely legendaries, azerite, and covenants). Non issue, destructive solution. Same as Survival. There was the made-up non-issue of SV overlapping with MM too much, and to “solve” it they made it melee thus cementing it as the circus freak of class design.
As for those other specs: none of them have a prior history as a successful ranged spec so, as per usual from you, this is another false equivalency.
Wow, physical melee abilities. A domain covered by no fewer than 6 other specs in the game (2 Warrior specs, 3 Rogue specs, 1 Druid spec). Truly groundbreaking stuff, here.
They’re absolutely generic. You could literally cut-and-paste Butchery into Fury Warrior and it wouldn’t be out of place at all, and Fury of the Eagle is a blatant copy of the Monk ability even down to a similar name. The type of people who lose their minds over that sort of thing are usually mains of classes like Warrior/Rogue, and those classes represent those fantasies far better and more completely than the piecemeal Survival approach. So Survival is made for the hyper-specific niche of people who really like melee and really like Hunters, hence why there’s hardly anyone playing it unless they absolutely have to.
Meanwhile, Wildfire Bomb and its enhancements are truly aesthetically and mechanically unique. It doesn’t even necessitate a melee weapon at all. It’s just a remnant of the old resourceful munitions identity haphazardly stitched together with all the other aesthetic fragments that make up the Frankenstein’s monster that is SV.
Well the ranged version I supported faired a hell of a lot better than the melee one. You’re in discord all day every day talking about how SV is the greatest spec and MM is the disaster that needs a rework, yet in M+ three times the amount of players choose to take the performance hit and play MM instead.
So yes, the pro-melee SV arguments are delusional. Because WoW’s history has clearly and objectively demonstrated it to be a failed approach and Blizzard have wasted an enormous amount of time and effort on that failed approach; time and effort that could have been spent bettering the class as a whole. We wouldn’t be here 7 years in bickering about it as SV remains a largely abandoned spec if it wasn’t a failed approach. It has a whole list of critical drawbacks because of being melee, while any positive such as in-depth gameplay is in spite of being melee. Is that last statement surprising to you? Because despite every SV fan insisting that melee is a prerequisite to distinct and interesting gameplay, that can easily be achieved while keeping SV ranged as well. And at least then it wouldn’t alienate the entire class.
99% better than MMs? And how many MMs? *In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. So I’ll have to take it with a grain of salt for now as I’m on the road doing a trip.
I’m too old for that, and too many here are too young.
Consensus =/= truth. The joys of outcome-based education, folks. “As long as I get the results I want, and the results everyone else thinks I should be getting, that’s good enough for me!”
…
… Is it?
Edit: I’m not at liberty to do anything with it myself. If I was active in DF, I could see which works best and all.
BM would only need to have Barbed Shot switched out for Lacerate, and Multi Shot replaced with Butchery. The first talent option could be a choice between Cobra Shot or Raptor Strike then just pick Lacerate and Butchery for second tier talents.
Beast Mastery Hunters have a simple rotation that can be easily adjusted to a melee play-style.
Well, it’s as “made up” as everything else in the game, so it seems like it’s just as valid to have that opinion. Thankfully, it’s melee and has a far better identity than MM with DoTs
Completely irrelevant. Prot had a “history” (one expansion) of Glad Stance and they’re very adamant that it is never coming back
As compared to the ground breaking, never-before-seen Fire DoT and explosion from WFB? I’m in awe at that.
Huge W for MSV WFB from Bepples.
If you think MSV abilities are absolutely generic I would love to hear your opinion on RSV abilities. Let me guess, absolutely magical poison and shadow dots? If Butchery would fit on Fury Warrior, does that mean Serpent Sting would fit beautifully on Rogue? Black Arrow? Gosh, Sub even uses Shadow magic DoTs right now…
What do I care what other people play? Our class right now is in shambles anyway. Azor knows SV is better than MM in M+, even so.
I love that when people think of fun and fast paced Ranged DPS it’s also 0 cast times high mobility (aka melee DPS) just with a 40 yard range
Looking forward to bickering about it for a future 7 years as it stays Melee and you grow continually frustrated at it
Sure, it fared better, but the game was far, far different back in the olden days. People are far more competitively minded now. Would RSV “Fare” that much better today? It’d be a DPS class without anything special—MM would do more damage and BM would be more mobile so it seems like RSV would just be lost. Thankfully that’s just a hypothetical and we don’t have to worry about it because SV is staying melee
Mean? Not at all, just highlighting how it’s just what you yourself think on the matter.
But, if an even level base tuning of the spec, combined with unrestricted movement would make it too powerful, wouldn’t the idea of tuning it slightly lower then be a way to compensate, so that it isn’t too powerful?
As opposed to how there’s literally only one spec in the game that is built around the concept of high front-loaded damage and burst?
sure…
Anyway, no, I didn’t say minimal burst or variance, I said “lower than…”.
I’m still waiting for you to provide a list of all those encounters where unrestricted movement is such a massive perk that it was generally a thing to bring BM hunters over other classes/specs with decent damage + other perks, such as group utility or buffs.
Like I said, a modern version of RSV, which is built on the core/foundation of old RSV, but with more options added to choose from.
Anyway, if you bothered to read the entire segment of my reply which is connected to what you asked here, you’d see what my argument is. You keep saying that a modern RSV will have to be made to have a different identity and fundamental design, all because of your perceived issues with any ranged spec who happens to have zero movement restrictions.
Coordinated Assault
100 yd range
Instant - 2 min cooldown
Requires Hunter
Requires level 34
You and your pet attack as one, increasing all damage you both deal by 20% for 20 sec.
Eh, here you have the BfA-SL version of CA.
It gave the same effect, just slightly lower dmg than BW. The base CD was merely 30 sec longer than BW. And if you go back and check the animation during BfA, it literally turned your character orange/red, just like BW…
The only real difference from BW, it was that CA also gave the bonus effect of(for the duration):
Flanker’s Advantage
Kill Command’s chance to reset increased by 25%
Duration 20 sec
Yeah, you’re right, they were worlds apart really.
Oh, I’m sorry. Is the animation for SV’s Kill Command different from that of BMs Kill Command? Thought you said this was the most important factor…
…RSV/MM had far different fantasies when it came to ranged weapon combat…
At least in the case of RSV/MM, the specs did not share any signature abilities with one another, at the time of the decision to rework SV.
How is this even remotely relevant to the point of what I was saying? Why I wrote what you quoted with your response.
Well, first off, a “barrier and blink focused mage spec” wouldn’t do much damage now, would it?
Now then, for Mage I think a better equivalent, that would be the fact that all Mage specs cast spells, primarily from 3 schools, where each spec focuses on a specific school of magic and, even outside of said specs, all schools are readily available to the base Mage class.
Having said that, I’m somewhat confused by the last bit(bolded text in the quote) of what you said there. Yes, all specs can do X, it only makes sense for 1 spec to focus on a specific part of it/focus on it more? This is literally what specs are meant to do…
This part is also completely irrelevant as I’ve never opted for SV to be reworked back to ranged.
Well, this certainly is the definition of “moving the goalpost”. Are you arguing that the main issue is how the animations are(would be, for MM/RSV) the same or too similar, or are you arguing that the animations are outdated and need to be modernized?
And yes, technically it can be both but, in your earlier posts, you certainly argued more towards the similarities between spec animations, and you really didn’t say a word about how you thought of them to be “outdated”.
But, anyway, fair enough if you meant it different.
Having said that, you can update animations to both be more fitting of the current game, and also stand out more, you can do this without having to remove a spec completely, or rework it into something entirely different from what it used to be.
In your mind, sure. Anyway, the point here was that so would be the case of the animations for MM + “modern RSV”, when compared. Like I mentioned above.
Considering your point of how the various animations need to be different, and easily distinguishable, I’d say it’s highly relevant? Since I made a point of comparing them.
Odd tangent, but to you, that might be the case.
Some people would probably like to have such options. I know I would. The only reason I’m not liking it as much now in WotLK: Classic is because you have to run in and drop the trap. Give me Trap Launcher and I’m all good.
Also not sure if you’ve bothered to thoroughly check it out, but I’ve included options to make it easier to manage the use of the trap, in case one feels the need to have it so. And, either way, it’s a talent option, it’s not mandatory or forced on you. If you don’t want to use it, then don’t…
You say that, yet, it only has 1 main theme. That is to augment projectiles and traps with various effects/enhancements. No matter which part of the tree you look at, this is what it does.
The more things you say about the concept, the more I think you haven’t actually looked at it much. Not saying you have to, but if you haven’t, stop spouting random nonsense and lies.
Where?
Never said it was either. Being proficient/an expert at using ranged weapons, that is, however, unique to MM.
How?
…sure, whatever you say.
BTW, if you think MM’s such a mess, design-wise, they can just take out “all” those elements which focus on ammunition/arrows and introduce a spec which properly focuses on those. Then MM can focus solely on the use of the weapon itself, on the aspects of sharpshooting and archery.
Heh, this statement of yours is quite ironic considering your endless shouting over “how RSV would be too powerful in the modern game, because zero movement restrictions…”
But I agree, generally speaking, zero movement restrictions isn’t anything special. It’s not such a massive perk to have.
Yes that’s what I said, but then RSV fans would be upset that their spec is worse than MM/BM? I don’t think you’re understanding me.
I never said it was a massive take all advantage, I just said it’s a clear and easily observable advantage. Can you explain why you don’t think it’s an advantage? If it’s not an advantage, why does every ranged DPS have cast times? Why does the game not want them to be mobile?
]
It’s not my exclusive perceived issue, it’s just the way the game is designed bud.
Why are you talking base CD like BW isn’t lowered drastically through the way the kit functions? You aren’t being very honest here.
Yes they really are? Do you not know how SV played back then? CA would give you more resets, which gave you more Focus to spend. They’re very different CDs
Well, do you suddenly find animations important? Glad I could convince you
Not really? You know I’m not the only person in the hunter community that thinks MM and RSV were very similar, right?
Just asking. You keep bringing up historical precedent, so I’m not sure if in 11.0, when it’s been melee as long as it’s been range, if that argument becomes moot.
All 3 Mage specs are incredibly visually distinct, unlike MM and RSV
Because you want to heavily focus an entire spec on using augmented/enhanced shots, which is something all 3 Hunter specs do.
So then why are we arguing? You can just make your own threads about adding a Munitions spec.
No it’s not, please brush up on definitions.
Both? MM’s animations are dated and boring, and RSV would be using those same animations i.e dated and boring, and identical.
I really hope MM gets new animations and a gameplay updated. It’s not very fun now and relies far too heavily on RNG. Should definitely bring back vuln windows.
and in game too Outlaw doesn’t use daggers and Mutilate/Envenom don’t use any of the same animations Sub uses.
This isn’t even a “just me” tangent. Most hunters despise DPS and rotational traps. Just look to 9.0, people hated SFE.
Fire, Poison, Lightning, Shadow dots and damage is an awful lot of things to keep track of thematically on top of traps.
Here
Well, except for BM.
Because adding “proficient at the weapon you use” is just reaching? Does that mean I can add “proficient at spears” in SV’s identity?
Though my language was sarcastic, it belies the “for one, all” point. It’s not so implausible…
As I’m about to hit the road again, I can’t quite go more into depth. I thought about it when I was on the road. I had to cram in what I could. One thought, two words: six years.
Six years. Six years and SV never got it quite right until 9.2.5, and Blizzard had some nerve to listen to the wrong people and muck up the SV tree in 10.0. MSV had its chips. If you can’t get it right in almost three expansion cycles, then how much more time will it take? How much time do we even HAVE now anymore?
If, in PvE, zero movement restrictions is as big of an advantage as you say it is then, having RSV’s base throughput potential tuned slightly lower would keep it on the same level as MM/BM, no? Then all 3 would have the same potential in terms of damage, wouldn’t they?
If not, then feel free to define in what way you think said lack of movement restriction is such a massive perk in PvE content, if it doesn’t allow you to perform better than other specs with said restrictions, it isn’t really of any particular value in a group-based setting. And just to be clear, NO, I’m NOT saying that having no movement restrictions, that it doesn’t have value. I’m saying that, generally in PvE content, it’s not big enough to motivate a reduction in throughput, as an example. Nor would it be enough to forego the idea of a particular spec design as a result.
I never said that it wasn’t an advantage. Under the right circumstances, it certainly can be. My point is that in the vast majority of all encounters, lacking movement restrictions won’t actually give you said theoretical advantage in terms of your performance, this because almost no encounters in this game, talking PvE, are designed in a way which makes the perk of having no movement restrictions an actual [major] advantage to have.
Again, if you think otherwise, provide a list of all those encounters where the mechanics cause for example BM hunters to perform better than other classes, simply due to a lack of movement restrictions.
I’m looking forward to that list of encounters…
Funny how the CD is the thing you hook on to. Not the fact that both abilities gave you and your pet a similarly tuned percentage-based damage buff to all attacks, that they both had the same animation.
And the fact that you can pick BW + SoB to gain additional charges of Barbed Shot, which is BMs way of generating additional Focus, that’s not relevant here or?
You haven’t. But according to your own logic, they’re the same.
Anyway, yes, animations matter. No, they’re not what you should base decisions to completely rework a spec on.
1 spec focused/focuses primarily on sharpshooting and archery, much through hardcasting and channeling, with high front-loaded damage and burst potential.
1 spec focused/would focus primarily on augmentations to projectiles and traps, much through the use of DoTs, with a lower burst potential, and minor front-loaded damage, relatively speaking.
Are you really telling me/us that you see no difference here? In terms of fantasy or gameplay.
Can you change history? If not, then…never?
RSV isn’t currently in the game so, how would you know?
BM currently has exactly 1 ability(Wailing Arrow) which is themed around firing a projectile which has been enhanced with an extra effect. BM also has the talent Bloody Frenzy which, over a short duration, allows Cobra Shot to apply Serpent Sting to any target hit.
Your argument is like saying that Subtlety can’t be designed around the idea of fighting in the shadows and stealth because all rogues can stealth. Augmentation Evoker can’t exist because nearly all classes/specs can buff others…
I did, you’ve used the same arguments about that concept as well, despite how I’ve stated several times that my goal is not for MSV to be reworked to ranged.
Sure…
So, because MM’s and old RSV’s animations were dated and boring, they were identical?
Again, no, they wouldn’t be using the same animations.
In the MM spec…
…Explosive Shot would have the same animation as…?
…Black Arrow would have the same animation as…?
…Immolation Trap would have the same animation as…?
…Lightning/electric shots would have the same animation as…?
etc.
And yes, I keep bringing up abilities from my concept as, well, there’s no current SV to compare with.
Never said it was “just you”.
“Most hunters…”? How do you know?
SFE required you to first put out a Tar Trap, which had to be triggered by an approaching enemy, followed by launching Flare into the area of tar, while the enemies were still in there. To get the most out of it, you then had to use Flare a second time in the same area, provided the enemies were still there. This effectively required you to perform this style of attack more or less every 15 sec.
Compare this to my suggestion, for a trap with a 1min CD, with the option for passive cleave/spread, and another option to effectively increase the trigger radius to 10 yards and edps(per cast) by 100% from the base.
Anyway, like I said…
The trap is also fire.
Anyway, those are different types of augmenting effects, all following the same main theme of serving as, well, augmenting effects for projectiles and traps.
Really, are you seriously getting hung up on the fact that the spec would make use of several different damage schools? Physical, Nature, Shadow, Fire, and Arcane. Regardless of which damage school the respective talents focus on, they’re all still themed around augmenting your arrows/bullets and traps.
Where do you find talents within BM that suggest a theme of focusing on perfecting the use of/being an expert at handling a ranged weapon? Or is it just the fact that BM uses a ranged weapon, aside from its focus on pet stuff?
There’s a difference between merely using a ranged weapon, and having your talents themed around perfect aim/accuracy, increasing your potential distance to the target, focusing on being faster at firing many shots within a short timeframe.
Like…
Aimed Shot, Steady Shot, Precise Shots, Rapid Fire, Streamline, Killer Accuracy, Careful Aim, In the Rhythm, Deathblow, Target Practice, Focused Aim, Tactical Reload, Deadeye, Trick Shots, Bombardment, Volley, Steady Focus, Quick Load, Trueshot, MM version of L&L, Bullseye, Bulletstorm, Sharpshooter, LotW, etc.
Are you saying that the primary theme of MM isn’t to be a sharpshooter and expert [ranged] weapon handler?
IDK, does SV have many talents focused on a theme that involves the idea of mastering/being an expert at spears or polearms?
How does adding more of those solve your perceived issue of MM’s mess of a design?
According to your comment there, apparently/maybe not(?).
No? If RSV is tuned lower for freedom of movement, then it wouldn’t be the same as MM. MM does not have full freedom of movement.
If you feel this way, why do you think ever ranged DPS has cast times and movement restrictions?
Lacking movement restrictions as a Ranged gives you 100% uptime on bosses. Where Melee would need to spread to avoid mechanics and get out of melee range, Ranged would typically need to stop their casting to avoid/handle mechanics. 100% movement while Ranged would nullify this and grant them a far more than theoretical advantage over non-mobile ranged DPS.
I’m looking forward to why you think every ranged DPS has cast times and mobility restrictions
Did you know Berserk was also a damage amp that turned you red? Did Druids steal that? What about enrage from Warriors? That turned you red and gave you a damage amp. Funny, eh?
Did BW in SL/BfA increase Barbed Shot’s innate reset chance? Er wait, Barbed Shot only had a chance to reset on crits, not a chance to reset on its own cast. Hm. Odd how they’re different.
So similarity in animations matter when it comes to SV having the same named ability as BM but now when it comes to an entire kit looking the same. Got it.
No, I am not saying that.
Are you really telling me/us you don’t see any similarities at all in MM and RSV gameplay or fantasy where your character stands far away, doesn’t have any pet interaction, and shoots a variety of arrows with different color? BM and RSV just boil down to shoot bow. I am not the only person who thinks this in the community and clearly at the time the devs felt the same.
Well, is 10 years of RSV is enough for historical precedent to outweigh anything else, what does 10 years of MSV mean? Not really sure how there’s a difference to you.
I don’t know, just going off of the past since you put an awful lot of weight in that. Thankfully we don’t have to worry about RSV being in the game since it was confirmed there won’t be any massive shake ups.
So Barbed Shot isn’t an augmented shot to cause bleeding and drive a pet into a frenzy? Cobra Shot just looks like that for no reason?
Absurd comparison, Augmentation visuals are drastically different than Dev.
Thankfully, Sub uses a lot of visual effects to differentiate itself from Mut.
Then you can stop talking about SV and start talking about your dream Munitions, seems like a better use of your time. Would be cool if each class got a new spec.
No, they were identical because they were identical.
By existing in online Hunter communities?
Yes, this is what DPS traps do. You have to use a GCD to position them (hoping for no vertical terrain) and wait for an enemy to trigger them. If the trap is just a targetted spell that doesn’t require triggering, then it’s just effectively Wildfire Bomb.
Kill Shot, Barbed Shot, Cobra Shot, Multishot, and ToTH. Certainly less ranged weapon focused than MM, but it’s not like BM hunters aren’t proficient in their weapon.
Yes, several? Just like Arms has talents about their weapons?
That’s only because Hunter was never meant to be a melee class in the first place. How about melee in general always having a turn with the new classes instead until Evoker?
I never said it would be the same as MM? I said that a slightly lower throughput potential, but full uptime, would allow RSV to perform on the same level as MM, which, depending on the scenario, might not be able to have full uptime. As per your point of mechanics and what-not.
What even is your argument there, when you say having no movement restrictions allow for a big advantage over other ranged damage specs which have such restrictions? Are you not talking about damage potential? Anything other than that is irrelevant to the argument of our role as damage dealers, and at most, is merely about a QoL-improvement for anyone that has no such restrictions.
And, if it is in fact about damage potential, then comparing 2 specs where 1 has, and one has no restrictions, if the one without them is tuned slightly lower to compensate for the perk of having no restrictions, that would in fact make them equal by your logic. Ofc, assuming the encounter in question requires you to move around quite a bit…
(This example is ofc excluding certain other factors, such as the need for a more bursty profile vs not having that, need for AoE/cleave, etc. etc. etc.)
Because that’s how they’ve designed them. Literally, one reason for why the devs have given certain abilities cast times is because, thematically, they feel that the fantasy of the spell motivates it, how you pause to gather the strength/magic to… And yes, they have said as much in the past. No, this is not the sole reason as to why they give some abilities cast times, and others none.
If it doesn’t amount to more damage compared to specs with such restrictions, it’s not actually an advantage, again, beyond personal QoL. If an encounter is not designed in a way where specs with no restrictions gain significantly more damage as a result/due to more uptime, over other specs, then it is NOT an advantage that motivates special considerations in terms of tuning/balancing.
You keep bringing up the fact of having to deal with mechanics etc. But the thing is, if the encounter design does not allow you to gain a higher damage potential over other specs, due to the fact of you having no movement restrictions, then your argument is irrelevant. In fact, I’m curious, how do you know that the devs aren’t tuning/balancing classes with this in mind already? I recall them saying that they do take this into consideration, and that for example melee classes are generally tuned ever so slightly higher to compensate for scenarios of forced downtime or similar.
Again, you keep saying that anyone with restrictions have to stop dpsing to deal with mechanics, yet, if it doesn’t actually result in a higher overall performance for the spec which has no such restrictions, then it’s literally pointless to argue.
I’ve already answered this before, but you have it further up in this reply as well.
Anyway, still waiting for that list…
Indeed. Anyway, not sure what your point is here. You said they were nothing alike, yet both had the same animation, both gave you and your pet a percentage boost to damage for all attacks for the duration.
In your previous post, you argued based on Focus generation, now it’s purely about the resets?
As I’ve pointed out several times, their entire toolkit wouldn’t look the same. You ignored that entire segment of my previous post for some reason though…
Sure I do, but this wasn’t your previous argument. There’s a very big difference between “some similarities” and “they were identical”.
Now you’ve moved on to BM instead of MM?
Funny how you always have to fall back on how “you’re not the only one who says X”. So, if 2, 5, 10 people say X, that always means it must be true?
Yes, well, you said that all 3 mage specs ARE incredibly visually distinct. That means we should base this argument on a modern version of RSV as well, no?
What effect have you augmented it with? If it was coated in a toxin which prevents clotting, I’d agree with you. Right now it just makes a target bleed in impact. You don’t need any special augmenting effects for that.
Cobra Shot doesn’t even look like an actual shot(from a physical ranged weapon). You fling a giggling orb of green goo at your enemy target. Not sure what your point here is.
Your previous post on this part said nothing about animations. It was about mechanical design elements which were shared with other specs/classes and whether they could be considered for a dedicated playstyle or not.
Your argument was effectively based on how, if it’s an occurrence/thing in other specs of the same class, then it shouldn’t also be approached as a primary theme for a certain spec.
This is why I say that you change your goalposts whenever it suits you, to further your argument.
Sure, and so would a modern version of RSV, from that of MM, and BM, apparently…
Not sure why you suddenly started comparing BM here since, despite the partial focus on ranged combat, BM is mostly about pets/beasts, and pet related combat.
It’s a public discussion forum. Am I not free to post wherever I want here?
Agreed.
And yet, their signature abilities did not have the same animations, ergo, not identical.
So…not most hunters…
Perhaps you meant to say “most hunters you’ve talked to”, or read their posts?
I’m aware, thank you. The difference between that, and what I suggested, for one, is the frequency of use, and ease of use/application.
And again, it’s not forced on you, it’s not mandatory. Pick it, don’t pick it.
By your logic, if I pick up a stick, and have an attack that makes me use that stick to hit someone, I’m now an expert at attacking with that stick? Literally none of the abilities/talents you mentioned there, excluding maybe Multi-Shot(albeit it has a vague description) are actually themed around the idea of someone who trains to become an expert in handling the weapon. Barbed Shot makes a target bleed on impact, thanks to jagged arrowtips(example), but how does it make you an expert at handling your weapon?
Okay, sure. Does any of that somehow mean that a Marksman typically wouldn’t focus on how to expertly handle the weapon?
110k parses of mm in heroic over the past 2 weeks sadly my mythic ones are private but I do pretty well there too definitely not blind leading the blind although I don’t lead anyone I just help out on the hunter disc where I can.
Politics makes strange bedfellows. Everyone hated Bepples, practically, until I came along and everyone now loves him?
I’m not just coming along. I’ve been here a good while.
*Also, I can’t forget the Machiavellian aspect of this: it’s better to be feared than loved. And the Rule of the Internet, “The more you hate something, the stronger it gets.” If I’m hated more than Bepples, I’m made stronger than him. And being loved in the community is not preferable as Niccolo Machiavelli would argue.
I’ve been very vocal about MeleeCraft and how it distorted the entire experience. That rides on a different tangent when you would rather play melee than ranged, but Blizzard catches on and starts making raid enctrs more punishing to melee. Stuff like that has always ticked me off. They PATRONIZED ranged classes that way instead of actually making it FAIR AND LEVEL PLAYING for both ranged types.
So you parse better than 109,800 other MMs. Never mind that’s quite a low number given the number of total actives, but I wonder how is it you’re doing something right and they are, each to some nth degree, falling behind. I would try and look deeper into that to see. Because it could be accidental, who knows? What if the second guy behind you stacks msty and vers like I would? There’s things like that make me wonder.
is it tho? Like I said earlier mm is around middle of the pack played spec in heroic and is probably more people than those that have ever taken wpvp seriously lol
Outlaw doesn’t use daggers and Mutilate/Envenom don’t use any of the same animations Sub uses.
