well no, it’s a melee dps spec so the kit is designed around melee abilities
you’re also ignoring Lunge, which gives you 1 second of WFB CDR through melee auto attacks. you’re also ignoring how much more damage you do through spending focus on MB than you get through arcane shot.
You glossed over what I just said about KC and Arcshot spam to compete against Lunge. You would wait 3.5 sec or so to get that 1 sec of WFB. *Okay, think about what you can do in 3 and a half sec, especially in a spec that prioritizes Haste.
Yes, and that’s not CDR you’re getting. And it’s faster than 3.5 seconds due to Bloodseeker.
Arcane Shot does cost more Focus to use, but it does far less damage than MB and that only intensifies the more MB you use in a fight.
Let’s say you spend 120 Focus on Arcane Shots, which 30 Focus (the tier set) fits really evenly into. This means you used 3 Arcane Shots which is an efficient way to get 6 seconds of WFB CDR. This would take you 4 GCDs to use (2 GCDS on Arcane Shot, 1 on Kill Command, 1 on Arcane Shot).
If I spend 120 Focus on MB, that’s 4 uses of Mongoose Bite and 1 Kill Command. You would get the same 6 seconds of WFB CDR 1 GCD faster (without Lunge) but do far less damage in the same Focus spent due to how low the damage from Arcane Shot is and how high the damage of Mongoose Bite is. Not to mention, in that same time it took both of us to spend 120 Focus, I also auto attack twice in that time frame, which gives me 2 seconds of WFB CDR due to Lunge that you don’t get.
So, while Arcane Shot gives you an instant way to spend 40 Focus, it does less damage than MB, and gives you less WFB CDR because you don’t have Lunge
Okay…
The whole point is GETTING MORE NADES OUT, not doing more damage somewhere else.
And?
Melee gets more WFB out through Lunge. So, MSV does more damage and gets more WFB than the RSV you’re trying to force.
Is this true and proven? Because simple theorycrafting is not going to be enough this time.
*sighs, it’s like if you want something done, you got to do it yourself. Sorry as I’m busy running Dire Maul on Classic right now.
I literally just explained it to you above. You have to spend 4 GCDs to get 3 uses of Arcane Shot and 1 Kill Command for the necessary Focus to spend 120 Focus This 120 Focus gives you 4 seconds of WFB CDR.
In the same 4 GCDs, MSV uses MB 3 times (which does more damage) , 1 Kill Command, which spends 90 Focus, which gives you 3 seconds of WFB CDR. However, you are also auto attacking at least once in this time frame, which gives you 1 second of CDR.
So even in the most generous situation possible (single target, 4 GCDs) there is the same amount of WFB CDR, except SV is doing far more damage with abilities other than WFB.
This whole micro discussion was started with you saying the RSV you are trying to force would be close in damage, which just isn’t the case.
So finally, you see in the theorycraft it’s roughly the SAME CDR. *And I already said not to focus on the other ancillary abilities because this is about WFB only, practically.
The same CDR (in the most generous possible circumstance for you yes, but hilariously less damage.
As soon as you introduce a second target it’s just hilariously blown out of the water.
Why? Why ignore the other abilities? Because that means you just immediately lose your point?
In the most specific situation possible, RSV doesn’t even get more WFBs. You get the same amount, except you do less damage.
So what? So it’s going to have to take an L for AoE. Ok cool, let’s settle for ST damage then.
Because WFB and KC are the only abilities affected from the tier set bonus. They’re also the best core abilities for ranged.
Also I already said the damage will be close. Now listen: I NEVER SAID ONE HAD TO BE MORE THAN THE OTHER. It’s the idea that RSV can still be viable and competitive. *If it’s a small margin, then that can be let go, for things to be tuned and balanced later.
Okay, let’s talk about ST damage. RSV does less. We can look at the pure ST just 4 GCD example from earlier. We will look at my Hunter again. For reference, Arcane Shot does about 20k, MB does about 26k, KC does about 19k.
Your forced RSV
1 x Arcane Shot = 20k damage, 40 focus spent (1 second of CDR from 4 set)
1 x Arcane Shot = 40k damage, 80 focus spent (2 second of CDR from 4 set)
1 x Kill Command =59k damage, 80 focus spent (2 second of CDR from 4 set)
1 x Arcane Shot = 79k damage, 120 focus spent (3 second of CDR from 4 set)
MSV
1 x Mongoose Bite = 24k damage (reduced by armor), 30 focus spent (1 second of CDR from 4 set)
1 x Mongoose Bite = 51k damage, 60 focus spent (2 seconds of CDR from 4 set)
1 x Mongoose Bite = 103k damage, 90 focus spent (3 seconds of CDR from 4 set)
1 x kill command = 122k damage, 90 focus spent (3 seconds of CDR from 4 set)
At some point in this guaranteed 4 second GCD time frame, exclusively generous to you, SV gets an auto attack, which provides 1 second of WFB CDR. So in the same 4 second window, MSV does around 40k more damage and gets the same exact number of bombs. That’s not comparable at all.
But it won’t be close, RSV is far lower. If you’re only looking at WFB damage…why?
It’s not viable or competitive, because you do much less damage and can’t do AoE at all. It’s not competitive or viable in any situation.
Test it out first before you make those claims. Because why am I looking at WFB damage? Because THE TIER SET, THAT’S WHY! THE ENDGAME GEAR, DUUUUHHH!!!
Wait until the revamp about that, like I’ve been saying for so long and it couldn’t penetrate that stone-hard gray matter of yours.
*I wish I could demonstrate this live because I know how to play it. I just couldn’t be moved for an unending 50% discount for the xpac.
But this is ridiculous because WFB isn’t the only ability used 
You have to spend Focus to get the CDR. You’re only looking at the abilities mentioned in the tier-set and not everything around it.
So you’re calling me stupid because I’m not factoring in a completely made-up revamp? If you disagree with any of the numbers I “feelycrafted” for you, go ahead and explain what someone in retail right now can do otherwise.
Ah, the joys of semiretirement…gotta love it.
Edit:
I’m factoring in all the other things you can do with a ranged weapon, so there is “everything” around it for that mode. It’s just that WFB and KC are top priority of course.
I’m talking about the one due for this class in 10.1.7, 10.2, and so on. You might be surprised and if it goes my way, I will laugh your way out of the door.
I actually wanted to talk to someone who actually HAS *done it. You’re just playing puppet right now, and that’s not what I came here for, not what I asked for, and not what I really want.
but you haven’t done it either so how can you make the claim that rsv damage in 10.1 would be competitive with msv in st? Again you are just pawning off opinion as fact.
so surely you can use your superior smarts you keep talking about and use some critical thinking as to why rsv isn’t competitive with msv in 10.1 (or the upcoming 10.1.5 for that matter).
I would want nothing more atm than to actually tool up and play SV the RSV way. But I can’t give excuses about this xpac’s constant discounts, the lack of WPVP, and me being busy on Classic as of late.
But I would know if I was still active on Retail.
I sure can, because 10.1 alone is pushing RSV back up.
The only thing you have access to with a ranged weapon that normal, MSV doesn’t is Arcane Shot, Steady Shot, and Barrage, all of which are worse than the alternatives.
So just something made up that you’re fantasizing about? Do you know what Ion said in his interview today about specs and drastically changing their role?
Well, the way you describe yourself, you’re some mega braniac so you should be able to look at the talent calculator and tell me where I’m wrong
Pushing it back up where exactly? Worse than tank damage? Worse than healer damage?
This is you again trying to make your opinion fact its actually insufferable at this point. You have no evidence, no proper thought put into it and yet here we are. Why argue if you have no idea what you are talking about? Do you just like trying to sound smart on a video game forum? Genuinely confused at this point.
Are they? You formed that more as an opinion, but what do the facts have to say about those?
No. As a matter of fact, they just revamped Ret Paladin for example. Blizz is taking the tour on revamping the talent trees. Ret as of 10.1 is WAY BETTER than 10.0, and they got a LOT OF NICE STUFF this time around.
And yes, I don’t know what Ion said. Word on the street is that due to Augmentation Evokers, they might kick up the idea of a support class(which I’m kinda against). We’ve been through that chapter in Vanilla and don’t need to go through that again.
Without DF installed, I’ll do the best I can. More to follow on that.
It’s remarks like that, that only reinforce your trolling. You know you’re just being disingenuous about this when you say it like that. Worse than what a tank or a healer can do? And I’m supposed to TRUST you? Forget you! All of you MSVs can go fly a kite.
You’re just going to get more of my reserved hostility that way. *I say it’s close. You’re saying it’s FAR away. I’m probably more right than you that way, which ought to embarrass you. I haven’t yet played Hunter at 70, and I know this stuff.
But you don’t? You’ve made it all up in your head. You have 0 evidence to support your claim. You know nothing about how current sv plays that much is clear. Get a grip dude…