Welcome back!
It’s worse than that: I just found out that you can give true MSV on a silver platter and they won’t take it. But you know, I’m done with them now because that’s the BEST I can do. I can’t do better than my best.
The crab will happily stay in the bucket, neither to enjoy land or sea, ready to be boiled in some nearby seafood restaurant…
Okeh…
P.S. jackalswind, the notion that SV’s “ranged-capable melee” approach is at fault and that SV would be better off either fully ranged or fully melee is ridiculous. Making the spec fully melee would be an unmitigated disaster: far worse than the current spec. We know this because it was the reality for Legion SV.
When it comes to Hunters, more ranged capability is strictly better. There’s no convincing argument to the contrary. There’s always a lot of talk about SV being melee to distinguish itself, but that was always dumb. That’s like taking Stealth away from a Rogue spec to make it stand out. You don’t diversify specs by taking away from the base class; you do it by adding to the base class.
Right. I never compromised that. Because yes, I was there and I dabbled in Leg SV, even to teach some history lessons about 5 yard ranges and other clunky mechanics like being close to your pet for Flanking Strike. What I was saying was that for the full melee argument: it NEEDS to have what OTHER melee have in order to be competitive. Because we haven’t gotten there yet. MSV had still been lacking in defensives and other utilities and until now can’t be taken seriously by the other melee.
So until the RIGHT STUFF happens, MSV will never truly come into its own. What tired me out was the “limbo” SV has been in for the longest time. I often talked about a deadlock that needs to be broken.
Even Combat had the worst Stealth of the three, but still had it. It had the Gucci Killing Spree.
I know I was more tolerant of MSV than plenty, because I figured that would set things along better. Of course I blame Blizzard for much of it, but at the same time I give credit where it’s due. 9.2.5 was the BEST itineration of post-Leg SV, and I was shocked when Blizz brought that sexy back in 10.1. I honestly did not believe it would happen, as I was upset and bitter that they took it away in 10.0.
The MSV fools didn’t appreciate grenadiering like I did.
*Not to mention, but I should add: when I mentioned I had over 200 days played in this class(and I’m not sure I’ll get up to 281 days as Warlock), that’s a testament of showing to others that I actually give a holy damn. I care about what’s right for the class. I oftentimes feel like I can’t TRUST the MSV fans because you don’t get to 100 or 200 days as a dabbler, as a FOTMer. If you main a different class and alt this one(like a certain James Franco-looking dude on Twitch who gets his butt handed to him in open-world), you’re not going to know what’s right that quickly.
I mean, this is the case for all melee dps lol
This reads like someone who is way too emotionally invested in this game.
Are you a Warcraft developer? If not, then what are you on about?
This is like a person bragging about spending a lot of time in the library thinking that makes them smart. Your statements are truly odd.
i’m aware how legion SV worked. i was there. you’re… well, preaching to the choir doesn’t fit… let’s go with giving a lecture to a coworker. and not in a “you’re the manager and i’m the newbie” way, more of a “you’ve been here slightly longer but we’ve both been here long enough that it doesn’t make a notable difference” way.
i simply disagree that MSV needs to only have melee abilities to be a good melee. we could get better defensives while having some ranged abilities. we could get utility while having some ranged abilities. these things are independent of each other.
you didn’t offer us a dream car that’s everything we want; you offered us what you think we should want. and then you got upset when we said it’s not what we want. if we say we don’t want it, you can’t just go “no! this is what you want! you’re just saying you don’t because you think you’re smarter than me!” like… no, i just know that i like the playstyle we have.
I don’t think anyone seriously agrees with that premise, it’s such an absurdist “all or nothing” take…
it’s almost as if they refuse to recognize that the following specs are melee with a few ranged capabilities (just like sv!)
That leaves really only Havoc, Arms, and Fury
Almost like a (e-)sport, eh? Is it not the true spirit of competition and the train of emotions thereof?
Maybe? But consider the words: I was willing to concede IF SV goes all the way melee. I’ll never say another word about it, unless it’s about MSV stuff, i.e. meta, metrics, representation, etc… I would then go back to my tent in the MM camp.
Because I don’t want this to be Orwellian.
Now I have WARNED that there is still the rest of the community to worry about. If MSV reaches its fullest potential, there will be contentions. So it doesn’t come without a price tag. The nice dream car of perfection will be the subject of envy, jealousy, and covetousness.
True Hunters knew their [inferior, because MeleeCraft] place as ranged and avoided it. We’re supersaturated with melee choices. But as of now, I will let MSV suffer, even to take sides against them at my pleasurable discretion.
Think about the THIRST of knowledge. Yeah, people who are pursuing knowledge more than others are going to be smarter than others. That’s common sense.
Not when I found potential loopholes for RSV. That’s where you and everyone has been wrong because you haven’t been “hitting up the books” and “listening to the podcasts” per se.
If I can get a hold of the 10.1 tier set, I can demonstrate FULL RSV play, and hopefully slam dunk it. It’s not just theoretical; it’s right there live! And I should be sipping the W knowing that MSV just got shellacked. It just got a buffalo diarrheal dump.
There’s an ulterior reason Blizzard is doing this. They know MSV is bad and it has failed every time. RSV has done nothing but bring the sexy back. Because MSV is not sexy. Simple as. All of the OTHER melee are sexy; MSV’s the wallflower.
you can do RSV play and perform far far worse than melee. arcane shot does no damage compared to mongoose bite, auto-shot does no damage compared to melee hits (for sv) and you have on aoe way of reliably spending focus, and you lose out on frenzy strikes, and kill shot
just like you can play unholy without festering strike. it “functions” but you don’t do damage
Only one way to find out, hmm?
Or let me guess, I’m supposed to take your word–someone who probably doesn’t have a 100 days–as gospel on it? Why don’t YOU do it and see it for yourself. Show us your 70 Hunter and tell us all how it goes.
“Far far worse” when I can probably crank out more WFBs, which do hit very decently with that nice 10% bonus from the tier set.
So let’s put our money where our mouths are, and not just make assumptions.
Okay, go ahead. You don’t even need to log in to see the lose you get from only using Arcane Shot instead of Mongoose Bite. You don’t need to log in to see you physically can’t use Butchery with a bow, so you would lose the damage from Butchery as well as the 5 seconds of free cooldown you get from Butchery.
Look at it like this.
You cast Arcane Shot two times with a full Focus bar and spend 80 Focus. On my Hunter, each Arcane Shot deals around ~20k. This would be around ~40k damage from Arcane Shot and 2 seconds of WFB CDR
You can use Mongoose Bite twice for 60 Focus, which provides the same 2 seconds of WFB CDR. My Mongoose Bite is doing ~26k (reduced by armor) but the second will do 15% more due to Mongoose Fury. However, during Mongoose Bite, I am also using auto-attacks which reduces the cooldown of WFB through Lunge, which gives me an extra second of WFB cd
So, in single target alone, RSV is doing 2 x 20k Arcane damage, spending 80 Focus, and receiving 2 seconds of WFB CDR. MSV is doing 1 x 26k, and 1 x 26k ( * 1.15) damage, spending 60 Focus, and receiving 3 seconds of WFB CDR (60 Focus spent + 1 second from Lunge)
So melee would do more damage with the spender, spend less Focus doing it, and get more CDR for WFB.
In AoE, RSV has no options to reliably spend Focus.
MSV has access to 3 stacks of Butchery, each costing 30 Focus. My Butchery does ~18k (reduced by armor) to each target hit. Each target hit by Butchery reduces the CD of WFB by 1 second up to 5 seconds, on top of the CDR from the 4pc on top of auto attacking with Lunge. Even in a two target situation, the bare minimum for AoE, you are spending 60 Focus (two uses of Butchery) and getting 2 seconds of CDR through the 4 piece bonus, 4 seconds of CDR through Frenzy Strikes, and at least 1 second of CDR through Lunge, which is 2+4+1 (7 seconds) of CDR that RSV has no access to
So in conclusion, MSV spends less Focus to do more damage, yet gets more CDR on WFB, so gets more frequent Bombs.
(this isn’t even factoring in the loss of damage RSV gets from no benefits from Bloodseeker or Internal Bleeding)
And are you also talenting correctly for RSV? *Are you picking up all the essentials, such as the Ranger talent?
there are no RSV talents on the talent tree aside from Ranger, which you do talent into with MSV, because it boosts the damage of Explosive Shot, Kill Shot, and Serpent Sting (and the Quick Shot talent)
But before you get pedantic, yes, I have Ranger talented
That still doesn’t change the fact that MB does more damage, costs less, and gives you more WFB CDR. It doesn’t change the fact that RSV can’t use Butchery, or receive benefits from Lunge, or receive benefits from Frenzy Strikes
Let’s not focus on that and focus solely on WFB, because that’s the true ace in the hole.
It might be close in comparable damage.
What? lol you can’t just say “ignore these things I don’t have a counter-argument for”
Except still not, because MSV gets more CDR for WFB through Lunge…
Well, no, I acknowledged that with a ranged weapon equipped, those options are off the table. Unless Blizzard changes something, nothing can be done about that.
I wish I could see, because 2Hers are often slower than 3 sec per swing, even with good Haste. So consider how fast you get the white hits in…
*I’m liking the odds of this better by getting Focus up the wazoo to chunk out Arcshots up the wazoo, and that cuts down WFB very nicely.
Bloodseeker increase your attack speed by 10% per stack. Not to mention, you will start auto attacking immediately in range, not to mention the 1.5sec gcd so using two abilities will still guarantee you at least 1 melee swing
It still cuts it down less frequently than MSV, and does less damage through arcane shot, and gets loss bombs.
Only because with a ranged weapon you can’t get the Carves/Butcheries. But that’s an AoE fault.