Not thrilled with the so called dungeon finder

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

@Zaalg-ashkandi

the black hole of logic

Red thinks time runs differently when there’s a content drought and Aurumai thinks corporations never lie to the public. I think they win the award for the dumbest people on the forum

We keep feeding them, so what does that make us?

[Drinknblink-benediction]

If yall anti rdf people were in my dungeons trying to tell me your life story id tell you to s t f u and do damage or tank or heal.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

You’re arguing with someone who doesn’t think 48% is roughly half.

I think we’ve officially bottomed out.m

According to Red’s definition cross-realm bgs were in 0% of Vanilla. Funny how they went in with BWL in Classic.

This guy is beyond delusional.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

It went in with the same major content patch as a raid. The very 1st day of being able to use rdf, i was able to enter icc raid and dungeons. Thats a fact.

I’m actually relatively certain you couldn’t since the raid opening at the time was world wide.

Not to mention yanno, the whole gating thing of ICC.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

Your obsession of only looking at the factors that support your agenda isnt really surprising though.

I like factual data, what can I say.

You clearly don’t which is why you never present any.

[Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

We keep feeding them, so what does that make us

It’s a sad reality that the only way for the devs to know there’s an issue with the game is to keep the topic going on the forum. That requires us to have a debate with imbeciles. I’ve written them off long ago. I don’t care what they think or post. What they say has no value. They’re not worth any consideration. But each reply to them bumps the thread. I hate that I have to do that so if I can I try to dump it out on them. Perhaps rdf will be added with cata, if there is a cata. If it is I’d come back for that.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

I don’t think he knows what a fact is. He ignores every example from Classic that illustrates the patch a system went in originally doesn’t matter….which is literally every system in Classic.

And RDF isn’t even coming with ICC. So what is the troll even saying? That RDF should be included with ICC? Ask him that and he’ll immediately pivot and move the goalposts.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Jeynar-mannoroth

I like factual data, what can I say.

You clearly don’t which is why you never present any

Do you not read? Or are you denying that the below is a fact?

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

There is no feel about it.

Was rdf in at 3.0? Yes or no
3.1?
3.2?
And finally 3.3, the only major content patch of wotlk that rdf was a part of.

Thats 1/4 or 25%.

So its a fact to say rdf was part of wotlk for 25% of the major content patches.

Go read the patch notes. They prove me right because its based on historical facts

[Deunan-atiesh]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

So what is the troll even saying? That RDF should be included with ICC?

In all fairness I do think this is a point he has brough up as “the proper” time for it to be released. I could be wrong though and am welcome to correction.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Ask him that and he’ll immediately pivot and move the goalposts.

As above, we really shouldn’t be putting words in peoples mouths or creating strawman situations, it obfuscates things.

Not being a white knight, I’m not a huge fan of them, but it’s better to wait for people to reply than make up things they said. Better to use their own words once they’ve been said rather then attribute them to a facsimile that we create.

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

based on historical facts

It was in for ~48% of the overall time wrath was current. This is a fact. You are doing what you accused others of with presenting only data that represents your view point in this debate, and doing it badly. You have yet to prove any quantifiable negative impact RDF has had on the game.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Deunan-atiesh

In all fairness I do think this is a point he has brough up as “the proper” time for it to be released. I could be wrong though and am welcome to correction.

I mean the proper time based on how classic has been handled would have been at wrath launch as RDF is not content.

[Deunan-atiesh]

I don’t disagree at all, it would follow with how other similar systems were released in previous iterations of classic releases.

edit:
Personally I’m a supporter of patch by patch progression for classic but I can accept why they wouldn’t want to do that.

[Ranker-winterhoof]

We need RDF, Anyone who doesn’t want it just wants to control others. Simple as that.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

Do you not read? Or are you denying that the below is a fact?

Sure, but it’s not useful data for anything.

It’s just feelscraft.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

The funny thing is if originally Blizz had said RDF would be included with ICC there wouldn’t have been much drama. Yes, that wouldn’t be consistent with how they’ve run Classic, but I bet most players would have accepted it.

Instead they removed it, said they have no plans to include it at all. So all this talk about being with ICC is completely moot. RDF is NOT coming with ICC. It’s just Red and the other trolls trying to change the subject and distract from the fact he has no argument against RDF. This is his pattern.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Deunan-atiesh

It was in for ~48% of the overall time wrath was current. This is a fact. You are doing what you accused others of with presenting only data that represents your view point in this debate, and doing it badly. You have yet to prove any quantifiable negative impact RDF has had on the game.

Where have i said it wasnt in the gane for 48% of the raw time, or duration of wotlk life cycle?

I havent. I have said its not the ONLY important factor when discussing how much rdf was a part of wotlk though.

As for if rdf was added when icc comes out. I wouldnt like it still, but i also wouldnt be on the forums benoaning it for almost a year because they did something i didnt like. I might stop playing when its added, but i also might keep playing just to finish the expansion off. I dont want or like rdf. But i know that once its in, arguing to get removed wont do anything.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Jeynar-mannoroth

Sure, but it’s not useful data for anything

Because you only want to doscuss raw time because it fits your agenda because it ignores the great content drought of 3.3.

Aka, just looking at time alone futs your agenda.

[Deunan-atiesh]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

Where have i said it wasnt in the gane for 48% of the raw time, or duration of wotlk life cycle?

You’re fighting real hard against that fact for some reason then, otherwise you wouldn’t be focusing on irrelevant metrics to support your side. Saying it was only in for a quarter of the expansion and disregarding that info also applies to other things added in that patch or in similar fashion is disingenuous.

Does this mean we can discount other late additions to expansions?

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

Aka, just looking at time alone futs your agenda

This is another example of you doing what you are decrying others for. regardless, the 25% of the time it was in Wrath was ~ 48% of the overall time of the expansion. You once again are dropping stats that support the opposite of your stance.

EDIT(also changed a word above):

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

As for if rdf was added when icc comes out. I wouldnt like it still, but i also wouldnt be on the forums benoaning it for almost a year because they did something i didnt like. I might stop playing when its added, but i also might keep playing just to finish the expansion off. I dont want or like rdf. But i know that once its in, arguing to get removed wont do anything.

I accept your correction on my assumption. This style of answer is generally what both sides should stick to in this debate as us quibbling is not going to change anything.

also here’s the dictionary definition of “raw time” as I was curious.
“The amount of time it takes to perform each individual task in an operation . This number is derived from a study of time, motion, historical information and standard time data.”

[Baalzebarbie-azuresong]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

I mean, if we’re really talking about OG Wrath, dungeon finder was only added in the very last raid tier. If you truly want the most OG experience, we’d have even less than we do currently.

wrong answer. LFD had NOTHING to do with a raid tier. It doesnt touch the part of the game that is raiding at all. It was released in patch 3.3.0. we are currently in 3.4.1. this is the actual patch. I dont care what raid you are doing, it shouldnt over shadow the rest of the damn game. Its not world of raiding after all.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

Cross-realm bgs were two months after Vanilla’s final raid tier. According to those clowns it wasn’t even in Vanilla.

Which is why using content release as some sort of reference point is meaningless. Time is all that matters. And yet…it doesn’t matter, as Blizz has proven with every system in Classic. Except one. Which isn’t being included in Wrath at all.

[Aurumai-grobbulus]

@Deunan-atiesh

You have never presented a single fact that didn’t support the opposite of what you thought it did.

Are you able to provide any examples of Redhead’s facts indeed supporting the reverse of the things he’s saying? There are a couple of areas where I don’t agree with him on the implications of some data, but I don’t think I’ve witnessed him proving himself wrong in this thread.

@Jeynar-mannoroth

Facts that include “I feel like it wasn’t present for much of the content” an entirely unquantifiable measurement.

How much relevant content dungeon finder was available for isn’t unquantifiable at all. All content in the game was relevant at some point, and dungeon finder was only present for about 25% (maybe less) of that relevancy.

What’s so hard to understand about that? O.o

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

I think they win the award for the dumbest people on the forum

Coming from the person who called their OWN words "just more bs you’re pulling out of your az because you have nothing rational to say."

Miregrim, the Canonically Disagreeable

---

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

@Aurumai-grobbulus

You know what else would be more efficient?

I never said anything about efficiency. I didn’t even use the word once. This is just more bs you’re pulling out of your az because you have nothing rational to say.

^ Link

A few days earlier…

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

Your argument always fails because it assumes that the path of least resistance is bad and people only choose it because they are lazy. In almost every case the path of least resistance is the better path. People choose it because they are intelligent. Almost all the advances we see in the world today are because engineers etc are constantly finding better ways of doing things more efficiently. The average person today has wealth the exceeds the imagination of people centuries ago. And its all because people have worked to make more and better paths of least resistance.

^ Link

The plot thickens…

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

@Aurumai-grobbulus

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

If you think forming a group is fun I pity you. Only someone completely desperate for social contact could possibly find such trivial and meaningless socialization valuable. People who have real friends and actual social interactions don’t attach meaning to the tedium of finding a group. It’s pathetic that you do. You need to find a good therapist and not try to use the game to fill the hole left by your lack of actual social interactions.

Yeah, I totally need therapy because I enjoy more socialization in an MMO rather than less.

Meanwhile, you’re clearly the well-adjusted one, calling other people online mentally ill because they enjoy the old design of an old video game, after calling your own words "just more bs you’re pulling out of your az because you have nothing rational to say." when quoted back to you.

What’s it like to be a living, breathing meme?

Yes absolutely. It’s simply not possible to have real relationships and friends and be so attached to spamming chat lfg for dungeon x and valuing “invite please” and “thanks for the run.” You must be desperate for any connection no matter how trivial to call what happens when manually forming a group a social interaction. That’s like thinking it’s a social interaction when the walmart greeter says “welcome to walmarts” and getting excited if they ask you for your receipt when you exit the store. You’re a very sad pathetic person.

^ Link

Hahahahahahahaha

@Jeynar-mannoroth

I like factual data, what can I say.

It seems more as though you like factual data, *If you think it makes your argument stronger. This weird insistence that dungeon finder’s presence in the game is only one-dimensional supports this.

@Miregrim-bloodsail-buccaneers

It’s a sad reality that the only way for the devs to know there’s an issue with the game is to keep the topic going on the forum. That requires us to have a debate with imbeciles.

Haha. You don’t know what “debate” is. You certainly haven’t shown that you’re capable of it. All you know how to do is parrot the same tired ad hominems, red herrings, strawmen, and traitorous critic fallacies that ever other one of your comrades posts, and then embarrass yourself by making verifiably incorrect statements and then conveniently ignoring it when you’re called on it.

I especially loved the part when you very correctly diagnosed your own words as "just more bs you’re pulling out of your az because you have nothing rational to say".

Miregrim, the Canonically Disagreeable.

@Deunan-atiesh

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

based on historical facts

It was in for ~48% of the overall time wrath was current. This is a fact.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he ever denied that?

@Ziryus-pagle

I mean the proper time based on how classic has been handled would have been at wrath launch as RDF is not content.

Guild banks say hello.

@Deunan-atiesh

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

Where have i said it wasnt in the gane for 48% of the raw time, or duration of wotlk life cycle?

You’re fighting real hard against that fact for some reason then

What does this mean, exactly? I’m assuming you can’t actually quote him ever saying that it isn’t true. Saying that time isn’t the only dimension to this point about dungeon finder isn’t “fighting” the fact of how much of Wrath’s lifetime dungeon finder was present for.

@Deunan-atiesh

Saying it was only in for a quarter of the expansion and disregarding that info also applies to other things added in that patch or in similar fashion is disingenuous.

Does this mean we can discount other late additions to expansions?

I know you weren’t talking to me, but I’m particularly interested in following this line of questioning with you. If this isn’t just a strawman, that is.

What other late additions to expansions do you have in mind, and how is it you think they might relate to dungeon finder in that many people might want them removed? Some systems were met almost unanimously with extremely positive reception and would never need to be scrutinized under these metrics to determine if they “belonged” in their respective era of the game.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Saying it went in with a raid is meaningless. What does that mean to someone who doesn’t raid? Absolutely nothing.

@Baalzebarbie-azuresong

@Aurumai-grobbulus

I mean, if we’re really talking about OG Wrath, dungeon finder was only added in the very last raid tier. If you truly want the most OG experience, we’d have even less than we do currently.

wrong answer. LFD had NOTHING to do with a raid tier. It doesnt touch the part of the game that is raiding at all. It was released in patch 3.3.0. we are currently in 3.4.1. this is the actual patch. I dont care what raid you are doing, it shouldnt over shadow the rest of the damn game. Its not world of raiding after all.

No one is saying that ICC and dungeon finder are intrinsically linked, other than to say that they were implemented in the same patch. Saying “dungeon finder came out with ICC” is just a different and/or easier way to say "dungeon finder came out in patch 3.3.0.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Cross-realm bgs were two months after Vanilla’s final raid tier. According to those clowns it wasn’t even in Vanilla.

Will Zaalg provide any evidence of people saying they weren’t in Vanilla? Doubtful.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Which is why using content release as some sort of reference point is meaningless. Time is all that matters. And yet…it doesn’t matter, as Blizz has proven with every system in Classic. Except one. Which isn’t being included in Wrath at all.

Once again, guild banks say hello.