Not thrilled with the so called dungeon finder

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
643

The only confusion here is the confusion you’re pretending to have.

Dungeon finder is the path of least resistance because it removes the necessity for things that either take time, or require some communication, such as traveling to the dungeon and whispering or inviting people, respectively. Also because it becomes the vehicle through which you claim any daily rewards for running dungeons, also without traveling to a quest giver.

All that being said, this doesn’t make dungeon finder better for the game, when the goal is for an MMO to be a more social experience where group content is meant to be approached with some level of cooperation and communication rather than an algorithm automating away as much of that as possible.

It’s not semantics. I’d recommend you stop using words you don’t understand.

Perhaps it’s the people who literally can’t or won’t stop themselves from constantly committing logical fallacies even in the face of someone pointing it out, who are only going to do one thing. :yawning_face:

You don’t know what that word means. :rofl: I’ve asked you tens of times now to explain what you mean, but Zaalg the Liar is above it.

644

Gonna put the part of my post that you chose to ignore and not add for context.

You neglect to understand that NO ONE wants to do regular heroics. I sat in LFG with replies that wanted H+ and not regular heroics. Gave up after I finished dailies on 4 characters. Is that long enough for you? Should I just spend the rest of my evening in LFG?

Here’s the thing you are staunchly anti-LFD, you are never ever gonna concede that your experience isn’t the same as mine. All you’ll do is continue to ask if I tried making my own groups (answer is YES! I ask in guild first and then sit in LFG for the time it takes 1 main and 3 alts to do various dailies). You fail to see the other side of the issue and that’s fine. :woman_shrugging:

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645

Sure, it’s the path of least resistance. Saying that doesn’t make it bad. It doesn’t really say anything. In most cases the path of least resistance is good. Scientists and engineers have spent immense energy and time to find better and better paths of least resistance and have improved the quality of our lives thousands fold. If you had a clue about what it was like to live hundreds, thousands, even several decades ago you’d appreciate how much better life is now that we have discovered so many paths of least resistance. But you’re completely ignorant about what the path of least resistance is and completely ignorant of history.

Rdf is one small simple path of least resistance that makes finding groups for dungeons much easier and makes the game much more fun to play. I’m glad some devs came up with the idea and coded it.

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646

I didn’t ignore it at all. I’m asking if you’ve tried forming your own groups, because even when you specifically mentioned the idea of forming your own groups, you didn’t say whether you’ve tried or not. Of course that’s always going to be one of, if the not the first things I ask, because being unwilling to form one’s own groups is easily one of the biggest barriers to finding groups for stuff.

You definitely don’t need 4,500 GS to do heroic+ by the way… I guess I wouldn’t be too surprised to learn that it’s common for groups to want that amount of gear, but once again, if you form your own groups, 4,000 is more than enough as long as you’re not just trying to ignore the affixes.

I’m not sure why you’d say that. Of course our experiences are different.

I never said that. You’re completely missing the point being made here, which is weird because it’s basically the crux of the argument.

I’m not saying that being the path of least resistance is necessarily a bad thing. What I’m saying is that the path of least resistance is the default path. It therefore follows logically (and practically) that it becomes far more time-consuming and limiting to do anything but take the default path.

Because of this, the entire argument over whether dungeon finder should be in the game or not boils down to “Which system should people be cornered into using, by and large?” And this is where and why the merits of each system are called into question. They both have glaring advantages and disadvantages, and whichever one you think is better mostly comes down to which aspects of the game you personally value.

For people who want dungeon finder, it seems to be stuff like:

  • More content per hour played
  • Less downtime spent on “less important aspects” such as group formation and travel
  • More consistent availability of people to play with regardless of time/level/content

For people who don’t want dungeon finder, it seems to be stuff like:

  • More focus on consistent immersion in the world (no free teleports)
  • More emphasis on communication and cooperation
  • Freedom to purpose-build groups to suit you and/or your group’s needs
  • The ability to network with the people you meet and build lasting connections

^This is all there is to the dungeon finder argument.

This is a video game. It’s not about scientists and engineers “improving our quality of life” by removing the dimension of time or effort from the game. That’s not what games are for.

I don’t understand why you keep saying this. :rofl: It just makes it seem like you don’t know what a game is.

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647

Your error is thinking the path of least resistance is the default path or you’re not clear what path is the path of least resistance. If the path of least resistance didn’t produce good results people wouldn’t use it. If people use it because it produces better results for them they aren’t being cornered into using it. If by far the vast majority use rdf, as you suggest, when given a free choice why should the vast majority be forced to use the method that only a tiny minority like?

We saw this with the lfg tool added to BC and we see this with the retail lfg tool added to wrath. It’s the path of least resistance but for some reason it’s not being used much and doesn’t work well. For a significant number of players it doesn’t produce good results so they choose instead to not level alts or not do dungeons if they level one. Every time a person makes that choice the lfg tool becomes less successful pushing more people to choose to not level an alt or do dungeons. It’s a downward spiral where people play less, raid log, or quit the game.

The path of least resistance can be choosing to not do dungeons, not level alts, raid log, or quit. Rdf is the path most choose not because it’s the path of least resistance but because it works well for most people

Video games are for fun. They are designed by engineers. They’re not designed by janitors or the bum begging on the street. In a video game improving our quality of life is about making the game more fun. A lot of hours from scientists and engineers were spent making the quality of video games better and better. Are you really this clueless about what a video game is or who makes them?

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648

You are still not understanding “the path of least resistance” is not synonymous with bad or it somehow being an insult.

Yeah no freaking duh RDF is the path of least resistance if you want to just pug and you don’t really care about anything else. Given that this is already what people are doing also makes RDF the best option since the dungeon I end up is exactly the same as if I hadn’t used RDF.

Now in some cases there might be a down side to the path of least resistance, for example if I’m say choosing between microwaving frozen lasagna or making it fresh. But that’s not the case for RDF and just pugging dungeons. Which makes RDF objectively the best choice since path of least resistance has no downside.

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649

Looks like the trolls found a new expression: path of least resistance.

You know what would make posting in the forums better? Every time you want to make a post, first count to a thousand, then blink thirty-seven times, now sing the theme to Spongebob. Ok, now you can post. Because tedious wastes of time enhance the experience!! Being able to just post doesn’t have enough resistances.

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650

That’s not social at all. Posting on the forum needs to be more social. Before an anti-rdfer can post they should have to find 4 other people in game and work together to make a group post signed by all of them.

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651

You need a minimum 3000 posts to join my group post. Scrub.

Also, trust_level 3 or gtfo. Not carrying casual posters.

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652

Overall I have a lot more than 3k. I change my forum avatar every expansion. I started classic posting on my main retail character. When people gave me such grief for not posting on a classic character I decided to stick with it for a while. But when bc classic came out I changed to my main classic character. When they announced no rdf I unsubbed for several months. When I came back to play some retail I decided to use this bank alt.

653

That’s a lot of words, but your postscore remains inadequate.

Go raise it up somewhere. Somewhere simple and undemanding. Try the Paladin forum.

654

See, the problem with this is that this is a remake and we’ve been here before.

We made our own groups outside of RDF back in OG.

655

Self-awareness level negative.

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656

What does this have to do with game design?

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657

A good game improves the quality of my life. If I’m having fun my life is better. If I’m bored with a game it lowers the quality of my life. Then I’ll quit the game which then improves the quality of my life. Especially if I find a way to use that time doing something more fun then the boring video game. Like a better game. If playing video games doesn’t improve the quality of your life why do you play them?

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658

No. A good game generally provides challenges, unless it’s a relaxing type game, which is not the case of this game.

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659

Indeed it’s a video game. It’s supposed to be about fun, not pointless tedious wastes of time. Ideally, anyway.

And I don’t play a video to make friends with someone to donate a kidney to me.

Players just want to run dungeons in a video game.

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660

So you have fun with a video game that provides challenges? Does having fun that way improve your quality of life? It seems you’ve answered your question.

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661

Okay, but you’re making it out as if looking for groups is a challenge rather than a chore.

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662

Ding ding ding. There’s nothing challenging about spamming your gearscore. There’s no great accomplishment in manually forming a group. You’re not an elite gamer because you flew afk to an instance portal.

It’s just a waste of time.

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