Not thrilled with the so called dungeon finder

[Aurumai-grobbulus]

@Jeynar-mannoroth

I also know what a social interaction is just to preempt you.

Maybe stop acting like you don’t then.

@Jeynar-mannoroth

Whispering folks with “inv” is not my idea of one that I want to pursue.

At what point in this thread, or anywhere on the forums did anyone ever say that “inv” is specifically the interaction they’re pursuing?

You’re getting very off-topic, so I’ll bring us back around: One common thing that people who dislike dungeon finder agree on is that it’s good that the traditional method of group building preserves the necessity of interactions between players, as the game was intentionally designed to encourage and require communication, cooperation and/or team work.

On the other hand, dungeon finder removes the necessity of communication.

No one is saying that manual group building guarantees plentiful, meaningful or good communication. Only that it guarantees communication of some sort, which is often the open door through which further interactions will come.

@Jeynar-mannoroth

Oh, I see, so when you bring in other people’s quotes it’s cute but when I do it’s a strawman?

And once again, trying to flip things onto me rather than answering for yourself.

Yes, acting like I said anything along the lines of “RDF killed WoW” is a strawman because it’s a ridiculous argument I’ve never made. If you think I’m wrong, why don’t you argue against the words I do say rather than ones that I’ve never said?

@Jeynar-mannoroth

But saying “RDF killed WoW” is a slippery slope fallacy

1. I. Never. Said. That.
2. Once again, that’s not a “slippery slope”. Please look up what a slippery slope is before you respond to me again.

---

It feels like you’re just trolling at this point. YOU said the words:

@Jeynar-mannoroth

your claim of all the bad RDF brings with it is a slippery slope fallacy.

And when I try to ask you why you (incorrectly) believe that it’s a fallacious slippery slope, you make pitiful attempts to dodge the question or somehow flip it on me.

Are you unwilling to explain your statements because you don’t understand the words you’re using? Why is it so difficult to get a simple explanation from you?

@Ziryus-pagle

Not requiring player interaction? Do you just no know how the RDF works?
At least 5 players have to queue up for a dungeon. That is interaction.

lmao

That’s 5 players interacting with the “join queue” button, not with each other.

Even anonymously on the internet, how are you not embarrassed to type such ridiculous drivel?

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Getting into those groups should be as simple and accessible as possible.

What is complicated or inaccessible about whispering people?

@Zaalg-ashkandi

That is how social interactions are increased.

Right, by literally removing the necessity for player interactions.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

@Ziryus-pagle

Not requiring player interaction? Do you just no know how the RDF works?

At least 5 players have to queue up for a dungeon. That is interaction.

lmao

That’s 5 players interacting with the “join queue” button, not with each other.

Even anonymously on the internet, how are you not embarrassed to type such ridiculous drivel?

So when I join an RDF group do I not end up in a dungeon with 4 other players?

What is the actual difference between whispering “I’ll go” and queuing up in the tool. Can you explain that?

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

At what point in this thread, or anywhere on the forums did anyone ever say that “inv” is specifically the interaction they’re pursuing?

You don’t need to say it when that’s what we’re currently getting that you’re pretending that is so precious. That’s kinda the whole point.

@Aurumai-grobbulus

Yes, acting like I said anything along the lines of “RDF killed WoW” is a strawman because it’s a ridiculous argument I’ve never made.

And when have I made the “they didn’t add RDF so they’re trying to sabotage the game” argument you claim I’ve made by linking a bunch of other folks saying it?

@Aurumai-grobbulus

And when I try to ask you why you (incorrectly) believe that it’s a fallacious slippery slope, you make pitiful attempts to dodge the question or somehow flip it on me.

It’s a fallacy cause there’s no slope. There’s no exit point. You can’t just say “RDF is bad cause it leads to x” cause x never happens. There’s no one asking for whatever is supposed to follow RDF.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

@Jeynar-mannoroth

Whispering folks with “inv” is not my idea of one that I want to pursue.

At what point in this thread, or anywhere on the forums did anyone ever say that “inv” is specifically the interaction they’re pursuing?

You are when you claim that RDF kill socialization.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

Right, by literally removing the necessity for player interactions.

Right, so you’re increasing player interactions by making it more difficult to form groups and thus reducing player interactions?

I know it’s Sunday, but you can do better than that.

[Aurumai-grobbulus]

@Ziryus-pagle

What is the actual difference between whispering “I’ll go” and queuing up in the tool. Can you explain that?

You answered your own question because it’s self-evident.

Whispering someone to join a group is interacting with them. Clicking “Join Queue” is interacting with no one.

@Jeynar-mannoroth

@Aurumai-grobbulus

At what point in this thread, or anywhere on the forums did anyone ever say that “inv” is specifically the interaction they’re pursuing?

You don’t need to say it when that’s what we’re currently getting that you’re pretending that is so precious.

Alright, so this was just an extremely roundabout way for you to admit that you’re putting words in peoples’ mouths. Got it.

God, I wish you guys would be more upfront. This conversation would be much less of a headache without so many people being compulsively dishonest.

@Jeynar-mannoroth

And when have I made the “they didn’t add RDF so they’re trying to sabotage the game” argument you claim I’ve made by linking a bunch of other folks saying it?

I never said you did. LMAO

I was talking to Redhead and making a snarky comment about the melodramatic things that I’ve seen pro-dungeon finder posters saying, not talking to you, or saying that you said that.

@Ziryus-pagle

@Aurumai-grobbulus

@Jeynar-mannoroth

Whispering folks with “inv” is not my idea of one that I want to pursue.

At what point in this thread, or anywhere on the forums did anyone ever say that “inv” is specifically the interaction they’re pursuing?

You are when you claim that RDF kill socialization.

More words inserted into peoples’ mouths. Classic Ziryus, the Master Debater.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Right, so you’re increasing player interactions by making it more difficult to form groups and thus reducing player interactions?

Still waiting for an answer:

@Aurumai-grobbulus

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Getting into those groups should be as simple and accessible as possible.

What is complicated or inaccessible about whispering people?

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

@Ziryus-pagle

What is the actual difference between whispering “I’ll go” and queuing up in the tool. Can you explain that?

You answered your own question because it’s self-evident.

Whispering someone to join a group is interacting with them. Clicking “Join Queue” is interacting with no one.

Clicking join queue interacts me with 4 other players

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

LOL. So grouping with far few players increases social interactions.

This is getting to Redhead levels of comedy.

[Aurumai-grobbulus]

@Ziryus-pagle

Clicking join queue interacts me with 4 other players

No, that’s an interaction with the “Join queue” button. Honestly man, you’re unraveling more and more every day.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

@Ziryus-pagle

Clicking join queue interacts me with 4 other players

No, that’s an interaction with the “Join queue” button. Honestly man, you’re unraveling more an d more every day.

Does or does not joining an RDF group result in me interacting with 4 other players?

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

Alright, so this was just an extremely roundabout way for you to admit that you’re putting words in peoples’ mouths. Got it.

But how am I?

You’re saying you want to preserve the social interaction currently happening.

And they just aren’t there.

It’s what we’ve been telling you since the start, you just aren’t listening and now you pretend “we’re telling you in a roundabout way”.

We’re literally telling you the social interaction that is currently the oh so cool and saved version that RDF aims to kill just isn’t worth saving.

We’re both losing cause you don’t have the social interactions you want and we don’t have the RDF we want.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Jeynar-mannoroth

We’re both losing cause you don’t have the social interactions you want and we don’t have the RDF we want.

And this is what she doesn’t understand, yeah we don’t have RDF but we’re not acting differently in the groups we get than we would in RDF groups.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Ziryus-pagle

but we’re not acting differently in the groups we get than we would in RDF groups.

Exactly, cause as it turns out, the social interactions didn’t diminish cause of RDF, the internet simply changed and there’s not a whole lot else to it.

[Drinknblink-benediction]

4800 mage.

[Aurumai-grobbulus]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

LOL. So grouping with far few players increases social interactions.

This is getting to Redhead levels of comedy.

Will you ever not be such a coward and actually address anything anyone says without insulating yourself in so many layers of thinly veiled lies?

Poor Zaalg. You’ll never realize that your lies are just egg on your face.

@Ziryus-pagle

Does or does not joining an RDF group result in me interacting with 4 other players?

It depends on how you mean. It does NOT necessarily result in communication, which is what we’re talking about. The fact that manual group building necessarily requires some level of communication is why we make the point that it’s better in an MMO where social interactions were intended to be a key part of the experience.

@Jeynar-mannoroth

@Aurumai-grobbulus

Alright, so this was just an extremely roundabout way for you to admit that you’re putting words in peoples’ mouths. Got it.

But how am I?

You’re saying you want to preserve the social interaction currently happening.

And they just aren’t there.

It’s what we’ve been telling you since the start, you just aren’t listening and now you pretend “we’re telling you in a roundabout way”.

We’re literally telling you the social interaction that is currently the oh so cool and saved version that RDF aims to kill just isn’t worth saving.

We’re both losing cause you don’t have the social interactions you want and we don’t have the RDF we want.

I guess you’ve also been ignoring me telling you several times now that I have far more social interactions and communication with group members when the groups are manually formed.

You also ignored me asking what realm you play on, which I think is probably an important factor if you NEVER see people interacting. If certain realms’ communities have a tendency to never communicate, then that’s just yet another reason why I don’t want to play with people outside of my realm.

---

And once again, you’ve completely ignored me asking you to explain why you called anything I said a “slippery slope fallacy” after I’ve explicitly brought it to your attention and asked time and time again. Not to mention all of the other arguments that you immediately dropped the instant you realized you were wrong.

Despite thinking that your stance is unreasonable, I had a much better impression of you when I entered this thread, but you’re shaping up to be exactly the same as Ziryus and Zaalg, never addressing anything specifically, always making feeble attempts to steer the conversation away from any situation where you’ll have to actually take responsibility for anything you’ve said.

That’s really a pitiful look. Go ahead and keep ignoring arguments and questions that expose your illogical reasoning. You’re fooling absolutely no one who can read, but if compartmentalizing your cognitive dissonance is what keeps you going, who am I to tell you to stop? I’m not your therapist.

@Drinknblink-benediction

4800 mage.

Sorry, we filled on DPS! I’ll whisper you back if someone drops group. Good luck!

[Drinknblink-benediction]

I would ignore your response and keep messaging people 4800 mage.

Imagine waiting

[Piptak-wyrmrest-accord]

@Jeynar-mannoroth

You’re saying you want to preserve the social interaction currently happening.

I swear these people are missing something in their lives. Trying to force social interaction to fill some void. I made a ton of acquaintances back in Wrath using the RDF. If that tool prevented them from “socializing” that’s completely on them.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

I guess you’ve also been ignoring me telling you several times now that I have far more social interactions and communication with group members when the groups are manually formed.

Fine, lets implement RDF and see if this is really true.

If you suddenly stop interacting with people I’ll concede that you’ve won that battle on your own behalf.

The vast majority of groups barely say “hi” or “thanks for the run”.

It has nothing to do with RDF cause it’s up to you as an individual to approach the group for a social interaction. If you are as social as you claim to be, RDF is absolutely no barrier.

@Aurumai-grobbulus

And once again, you’ve completely ignored me asking you to explain why you called anything I said a “slippery slope fallacy” after I’ve explicitly brought it to your attention and asked time and time again. Not to mention all of the other arguments that you immediately dropped the instant you realized you were wrong.

FWIW, I’m ignoring it to get to the bone of the argument. I’m not interested in discussing what a slippery slope fallacy is with you cause you’re clearly ignoring the fact that there is no slope which is exactly what makes it a slippery slope fallacy. So it’s not worth going on and on about it.

I’ve said this to you thrice and you keep ignoring it, but apparently this is a bad look on me?

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Aurumai-grobbulus

@Ziryus-pagle

Does or does not joining an RDF group result in me interacting with 4 other players?

It depends on how you mean. It does NOT necessarily result in communication, which is what we’re talking about. The fact that manual group building necessarily requires some level of communication is why we make the point that it’s better in an MMO where social interactions were intended to be a key part of the experience.

But I have communicated the exact same thing to 4 other players I’m in an RDF group with as I would otherwise.

That communication whether it’s queueing for RDF or whisper “I’ll go” is nothing more than I want to do this dungeon and I don’t care who I do it with.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Drinknblink-benediction

4800 mage

Sorry have 3 mages already and its a 10 man.

Oh sorry am i gatekeeping you now?