Ilvl shows the potential of that characters ability.
The Spec shows what can be expected of that player and what they bring to a group.
RIO shows a vague outline of that players experience.
To me none of these show knowledge that player has, skill of said player or compentece of that player.
Experience is what hones skill + competence. You also gain knowledge through experience.
You can gain knowledge by watching videos or reading guides, but lets be real. We are on GD after all.
Ya’ll got Raider io because everyone and their damn mother wants “character progression”.
I’ve said it time and time, if you want equal or easier to obtain gear, people are going to use a different metric to determine if you are worth bringing into a 5 man.
Prior to titanforge bull crap, at least having a better item level and gear “score” meant you were clearing harder content, which suggests you are not the typical pug. This is speaking in the most general of sense. Yes people can buy loot, people can get carried yada yada yada, but Raider io score is also teh same way.
Push week? Remember in Legion when Sanguine and Volcanic were the affixes? Peoples scores got massively inflated because of that.
All in all, I am going to pin point the problem and its gear, the amount of gear, and the ease of accessibility to gear. And its all thanks to the majority of the GD player base.
Here is how stupid Raider IO is. This is my alt at this point. Look up my Raider IO.
On this character daily I am treated like an idiot who does not deserve to step foot in Mythics and has zero experience.
It is a childish site developed because Blizzard is too lazy to do it themselves and compensate for this.
Now this is my main. Now you see why this system is so stupid. You are judging people based on a 3rd part website.
On one character I can run whatever I want and groups beg me to tank. On the other I treated like a noob who knows nothing about WoW>
Yes, but just because my character sims at 15k sustained DPS (for example) thanks to their gear doesn’t mean that I can achieve anywhere near that
It’s arbitrary these days because half the 400+ pieces on my main come from Darkshore which doesn’t require me to really be capable of anything
Sure, but just because my spec has the tools doesn’t mean that I use them or know how to make the most out of them
True in a way, though I’m not sure it’s really all that vague once you get into it honestly. Can see what dungeons I’ve run, can see what my highest keys are, can see whether I completed them in time, can see whether I 2 or 3 chested them and at what level key I achieved that on, can see if I’ve been running them with certain people regularly and can see those people’s IO (so whether they’re carrying or not) etc.
Like there’s a good chunk of info available through IO
I’d argue that out of it all IO is by far the best indicator we have. Sure there are going to be outliers, but if I’m queueing for a +6 Atal’Dazar and have completed a ton of Atal’Dazar with multiple timed runs around the +4 and +5 mark with a variety of different groups then it’s a preeeetty safe bet that I know enough about Atal’Dazar on mythic to be an asset in said +6
At least I’d consider it a much better indicator than ilvl or spec ![:woman_shrugging:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/woman_shrugging.png?v=6" ":woman_shrugging:")
For the most part this is true. But RIO isn’t an exact representation of experience.
It can bevague. It has faults. Its the best tool players have to judge experience but its not perfect. And because of this I don’t think it should mean as much to people as it does.
What should?
I just proved above how amazingly stupid Raider IO is. Two Paladins/different factions both with very similar almost 400 ilvl gear for Ret and Prot but one gets instant invites because my guild got me into them and my other Paladin pugs them so highest is a 7.
Trust me the play experience on both is siginificantly different. Raider IO is being used to screen pugs for Heroic BoD also.
It is spreading like a cancer.
What should we use instead?
Raider IO because Blizzard refuses to build a better in game system. My issue with the system are the inherent flaws with very limited access to data.
If Blizzard is going to do this and let Raider IO continue to run with no answer then they need to share far more data and work actively with them to develop it.
This very site we chat on right has more information then Raider IO because it tracks all of our characters.
And I certainly don’t think it’s perfect, but I do believe that it’s probably about the best we have right now
I can see Blizz implementing it as they did with ilvl and hopefully it sees some improvement along the way
Honestly the concept behind R IO isn’t entirely bad but its NEEDS fine tuning. It has flaws and shouldn’t be treated as an exact measurement.
You choose your groups the way you want. I just don’t think a 3rd party add that has obvious flaws should be the “go to stat” for deciding groups.
The most epic fail of a mythic I’ve ever been a part of was a group I made and chose based off of IO and we couldn’t make it past the 1st mob. Also one of the smoothest runs was based of IO.
I figure if its going to be a chance either way I choose not to discriminate over a number created by a 3rd party add.
I now choose groups based off personal experience, my knowledge of classes and other people’s personalities, the specific mythic and affixes.
my willingness to go in depth in evaluating would hinge on the keystone level and the affixes that week and even the spec/class applying for example with bolstering and skittish both active this week you better believe i’m going to be a huge stickler when it comes to my tank(again just how much depends on the keystone lvl) because this week a tank that doesn’t understand bolstering can potato anything 4 and higher with relative ease, now next week for example which has light affix’s i’d mostly just aim for comp and even then i’d be fairly laxed wouldn’t aim for a hardline meta comp but i would bring a comp that has the tools needed to make the run quick clean.
the point i was trying to make was that there are many other reasons that someone will be declined before their rio score actually comes into play
the most important of these issues is spec and class this is by far the greatest reason people are declined for M+ pugs and also as such the largest source of complaints wrongly pointed at rio.
the person being declined tends to just assume it’s because of their score and doesn’t think for example “well i’m a melee maybe that group already has 2 melee” or " my spec really struggles in this content maybe that’s why I’ve been declined" no they far more often just come to the forums to declare rio and those using it the devil it’s almost tragic.
rio tracks all of your characters as well, it’s just your responsibility as the user to sync your account data and claim your toons you electing not to do this is hardly a shortcoming of the site and add on i can tell ya tho if you do so a certain problem that one of your paladins has that the other does not will vanish.
and the fact of the matter is there is nothing you will find on this site that you won’t also find on rio that’s kind of the whole point of it drawing it’s data directly from it in the first place.
Right so… poking fun at and insulting the only/most viable system we have currently…
No one is sitting here saying it’s perfect, we are sitting here saying we use it because its the best we have.
Is this really happening? Are people really that mad over a site that uses the data freely provided by Blizzard to maintain a mod that allows other people to easily see people’s progress in doing some of the more challenging content? Are these the same people that hate the idea of MMR/Rankings/Tiers/Brackets? I am at a loss to understand this.
This may very well be true. And ill bet that its happened more than once.
Take a look at most of the post on threads like this and 9/10 people defending R IO say “get gud”,“make your own group” or some other remark that attacks the players who are against it. Its easy to see why people think R IO is to blame.
Players make good points against R IO and no one believes it’s perfect. And I don’t think players should judge solely on IO.
Overall its a useful add that can be misused or in accurate and in my opinion is overrated.
Like Arashii said, if you go on Raider io and make an account, then sync with Bnet it’ll make things a lot easier. You can mark one character as your main, then mark other characters as alts and when people check your alt’s io, they can see that.
But how else do you judge? Ilvl is not an accurate way to tell if someone is capable of doing, say, a +10 if they’ve never done one for that dungeon. While Raider io is not absolutely perfect, it is the best way to judge someone’s experience with M+.
That is a good question. One that has been asked quite a bit. I hate to do this but I need some clarification first…
Why does ilvl mean so little to everyone?
How many casual players have an ilvl over 400?
How many inexperienced players have an ilvl over 400?
What’s the best/fastest/most reliable way to obtain gear that is over 400?