What’s “my own key” got to do with it? Stop projecting. Unlike Legion, there’s nothing worth doing in the BfA for players who aren’t interested in pushing keys or raiding.
That’s one reason why the world is so empty. Casuals have nothing to do in current content, while raiders who aren’t raiding or their single m+ for the week don’t either.
you… literally just said this
in a thread about m+
so the assumption was, you were talking about m+, but I guess you were talking about something completely different?
ok then.
There are always exceptions to the rule, I have taken higher level io players and found they were not just bad they were horrible, like you have to try to be that bad. And I have taken lower io players who were not bad. But overall you have much better chances to get someone who know what they are doing if you take a higher io player. When you get into the 1500s that person is almost guaranteed to know what they are doing and be a good player. They didnt get carried to be that high.
Unqualified players with nothing else to do are trying to get into your groups, and you’re having to weed them out. No?
As someone who doesn’t really raid, or do dungeons, only doing the minimal required for a content unlock:
I was initially offended by Raider IO. Then I realized something, I’m never going to be doing a thing where someone is using Raider IO; Even the “unlock” thing I’ll be doing will be just an LFR.
I’ll never be doing a mythic, since I think the unlock requiring that was only at first (but now can even be on normal, while I think it wasn’t a “mythic plus” to begin with.)
Elitists are going to elitist. Or, like other people said, some people just want to have a chance at finishing the thing.
The only issue I see with raider io is that scrubs dont understand how to use it and require much higher io scores to run content that doesnt require it. You dont need a 1000+ score to run a 5 when everyone is ilvl 400.
Also look at pure malice in this thread hes only run a few +2s and a +5 no heroic raiding and he is 398. A few more titan forges or a lucky darkshore/wb drop and he is there. I on the other hand am like 406 on my heal set and im 8/9 heroic got a few mythic first raid boss kills. Dozens of mythic 10+s. We are an 8ilvl difference.
Honestly no that wasn’t an attack on that player. Arashii simply took time to look up Shadeus, through the armory, to prove that ppl can, AND DO btw, not only use RIO but want to see exactly what this person that is queueing for their key is about, and honestly if you’re running a +10 and up, you don’t want to waste your time in the key(and keep in mind I said in the key, not the person)because they can be tedious, and if nothing else, you want that key completed, not abandoned which is even more annoying and wasteful…
If you want to run higher end keys, you NEED to put forth that extra effort that doesn’t take a lot to put into your character - correct gems, correct chants, etc. and the effort to research the said dungeon for what sort of contribution you can make with your character to the makeup of that group. You cannot honestly go into some of these keys with particular class makeups and get a decent finish on it. The more serious “runners” don’t want just a completion, they want to push the keys, and chest them.
I also want to add, my main has a RIO score of 404, I am well aware that I would be declined for tons of keys due to this, and I do not even attempt to request to join those. I am slowly building my score up, so that in time I can join those higher key queues. I realize that if I want to improve, I have to do my homework, and prove to 4 other strangers that I am worth the inclusion to the key.
You yourself stated RIO is not perfect, and that some players base what they do solely off of RIO and that it’s a misuse of it which creates discrimination - the last part, I disagree with, it isn’t discrimination, no one is inclined to invite anyone - but Arashii gave you, and the rest of this thread another 100% legit way that ppl will be sized up for these keys, even if RIO wasn’t around.
RIO isn’t perfect, and at first, I thought it was a crappy concept, and one of the worst tools since Gear Score back in the day. Then I added the addon and made a RIO account, and really took the time to see what it was all about. It isn’t some big bad grizzly bear trying to tear down your tent. It does have flaws in it, as does everything else.
Yes, it can be abused, but then so can many other things…and have been. Shoot, lmao I remember when AOTC actually meant something, but now it’s nothing more than a sales boost for ppl selling raids, to ppl who for whatever reason would rather buy themselves a carry through current content than do it on their own. I’m not knocking them by any means, some ppl have legit reasons as to why they do this, and to each their own. But it has 100% diminished what AOTC used to mean in this game, other than to have the achievement to just have that xpac’s achievement.
It’s b/c of the carries, and the wasted time and broken keys(In Legion, if someone left the key, it broke the key and you were screwed. I was in several of those and it pissed ppl off, as it should have. Ppl would even join just to troll the grp for the sole purpose of breaking keys - very disgusting behavior) that someone felt the need for something like this, and this is where we are now. It isn’t the best but it could be a lot worse.
Would it also be safe to assume a player with an ilvl over 400 would also know what they are doing? That’s what I’m trying to find out.
But if the tool is proven to be less efficient or equal to a measure provided IN GAME at anything +10and over.
AND shouldn’t be used as a measure for anything +3 and under giving players a chance to “get gud”.
The only useful application is between +4 and +9. And that is about 20% of the mythic content available.
That’s what I’m trying to research. Because if my statement is accurate (at this point its just a hypothesis) the the tool would be being abused more than its actually proving helpful.
UNLESS the majority of players engaging in mythic content is between +4 and +9.
I understand why players use the tool. I understand why some players dislike the tool. But its hard for anyone to argue against facts.
So I’m trying to obtain the facts and at least end the argument using numbers and standards.
What I don’t understand is that multiple players on multiple occasions have claimed it to be a tool for discrimination and Blizzard hasn’t said anything for or against it.
If someone was to claim discrimination ANYWHERE in America for any reason an investigation would follow. If not by the company its self then by an outside source. The fact that Blizz either found it to be a fair measurement and never made a statement about it OR have failed to even look into it is strange to say the least.
That was just trying to be funny and lighten up a tense argument
I try to keep an open mind about this whole thing
no
Start a community for people who don’t use Raider IO. If you invite all the people who are Anti-Raider IO, you’ll have a full communtiy of people to do Mythic + whenever you want.
But ay, that’s not the problem is it? No, you just want to get into groups above what you’re capable of and be carried, and Raider IO prevents that.
Then please provide me with the information.Numbers and hard facts. That would almost completely end this entire argument.
what fact are you looking for?
gear isn’t a reflection of skill?
io is only a reflection of experience?
none of us can give you what you’re looking for, because we all have vastly different opinions on using raider.io
You can, but the underlying data rio uses is still public.
People assume someone looking up their raider IO is an attack on them.
But the biggest thing abour raider io is your score will be low if there are certain dungeons you are avoiding. Avoiding dungeons=someone who is either an alt or someone who doesn’t care as much about M+ progression.
What’s wrong with trying to find people who understand the mechanics and do what it takes to get the key in time? RIO doesn’t garauntee that anyone will be good even, it’s just a tool to determine whether or not someone is at the skill level for the key.
It’s not an attack at all, it’s just a measure of progression
iLvl is a meaningless metric when it comes to M+, I wouldn’t even trust a M raider with 410ilvl in a 15+ key if he has little to no experience in it.
Why? Because raiding experience simply differs drastically to M+ experience. It’s easy to think of everything as mechanics, dodge stuff and you win, but unfortunately, M+ has far more naunce than that.
A person with 0 experience wouldn’t know the routes to take, the abilities to kick, the optimal mobs to kill for the percentage count and the different affixes.
Just as an example, a good DH with plenty of experience on high keys can relive pressure on tanks by taunting bosses or mobs off and immuning mechanics with blade dance. This is something that only comes from experience.
No, simply no.
R IO is a 3rd party source. If a measure IN GAME has an equal or better success rate than R IO in mythics+10 and higher,it can not be viewed as the “best tool available” for said content. And Perceiving it as such would be a misuse of the tool and information it provides.
The stats I’m looking for are:
Number of failed mythics +10 and higher by players above 400 ilvl
VS
Number of failed mythics +10 and higher by players with high IO
AND
Number of mythics +10 and higher completed by players ilvl 400 and lower
Vs
Number of mythics +10 and higher completed by players with low IO.
Both stats would be needed for an accurate conclusion. But if I had 1 of them a fair assessment could be made.
This is true but only to a point. A person with out knowledge wouldn’t know what to do. It is possible for a player to experience it without really knowing what happened or why.
I’m not entirely sure but something like this may be why players feel it causes discrimination. You are assuming people are part of a certain group based off of a number given by a 3rd party add.
This statement is one I’m trying to prove correct or incorrect in comparison to other forms of rating provided in game.
Basically if R IO is proven more reliable than anything provided in game AND can be applied to a majority of the endgame content. Then it can considered the “best tool for rating a players skill”.
But if it can’t be proven with facts and numbers then all it seems to be useful for is segregating a player base. And can been seen as…discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction towards, a person based on the group,
or category to which the person is perceived to belong
The fact its a 3rd party add makes the argument worse and the fix easy.
(Can’t help but feel like this is going to start a fight lol I’m sorry)
Naturally, but rio has tons of information on it besides the score number. If you look someone’s io up on the website you can see if there are any outliers such as a random key that went way over time. Some of these things aren’t as bad as people might think, and could be a sign that the player is willing to complete the key. That’s why I think there really isn’t much of a better solution other than in terms of determining the score.
That’s just it. There isn’t any other score by default on WoW other than showing keys completed. The reason I feel it’s better to have rio and the scoring system, is because the number seperates people who want to quickly get gear and those working towards progression.
You need to do every dungeon to get your score up. It’s nice to know whether or not someone spent the time to learn the affixes, especially since they’re different every week.
To think it’s discrimination is ridiculous in my opinion, it’s no more discriminating than a PVP rating.