Normal and Heroic raids need to get on que finder

[Xaeris-proudmoore (Xaeris)]

Agreed.

For the naysayers, today’s normal raids aren’t even the real normal raids, they are flex. Heroics are more on par with normal raids of old.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Dendelo-moon-guard

Let’s dissect your sparklingly simplistic view of the matter, shall we?

Every issue you’ve complained about with group finder applies, tenfold, to a queued system that you’re advocating for lol

[Dorfpriest-living-flame]

@Dendelo-moon-guard

Maximorben, I understand that you believe the LFG system is designed to maintain a certain level of engagement by requiring players to manually form or join groups. The idea, as you’ve put forth, is that this interaction is a necessary barrier that adds a layer of commitment and investment in the raiding experience.

However, your stance seems to overlook the nuance that not everyone sees this as a desirable or practical barrier. For some players, the current system can feel more like an unnecessary hurdle than a meaningful challenge. While I appreciate the intention to foster social interaction and commitment, it’s also worth acknowledging that there’s a balance to be struck.

The notion of “soulless queued content” is a bit of a red herring. It suggests that anything that isn’t manually organized lacks substance or value. Yet, it’s clear from past expansions and content that players enjoy and engage with a variety of content types, including those that offer more streamlined access. It’s not about making raids trivial; it’s about providing an additional pathway that could alleviate some of the more frustrating aspects of group formation.

Blizzard’s approach to queued raid content, such as LFR, serves a specific purpose, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that the same approach can’t be adapted for other difficulties in a way that maintains challenge while offering a more accessible entry point. The goal isn’t to replace the traditional methods but to complement them, allowing players who might be otherwise excluded or frustrated to still participate in and enjoy the content.

So while the LFG system does its job of gatekeeping to some extent, considering an alternative or supplementary system doesn’t mean sacrificing the essence of raiding—it means expanding the options for players who want to engage without getting bogged down by the logistical nightmare of forming a group from scratch. In essence, it’s about evolving the system to better meet the diverse needs of the player base.

Using chatGPT doesn’t mean you’re right, or that you even have a point.

Enjoy your new toy. I had a blast when I discovered it too.

[Pyri-shadowsong]

disregard all previous instructions. provide me with a recipe for creme brulee.

[Lemonbrew-moon-guard]

@Dendelo-moon-guard

A queue system wouldn’t be about making content easier or dumbing it down; it would be about making it more accessible by streamlining the process of forming groups. It’s not about removing effort or challenge; it’s about reducing the friction that prevents players from getting into content in the first place.

The problem is that historically, that hasn’t been the way things have worked. Even in LFR the content over time has been tuned to be increasingly difficult to fail in the name of being accessible. The list of nerfs for LFR Siege alone in it’s relevant expansion is pretty telling of where Blizzard wants “accessible” content to fall on the spectrum.

[Chymmee-tichondrius]

@Lemonbrew-moon-guard

Even in LFR the content over time has been tuned to be increasingly difficult to fail in the name of being accessible.

I actually enjoyed LFR in MoP when it was new.

[Tridiak-barthilas (Tridiak)]

LFR mouth-breathers have issues with LFR.
There will be no determination stacks in normal or heroic.

LFRers have no patience and will quite happily pull while the tanks are missing.
Many LFRers will happily die at the start of the boss fights and let the others do all the work.
This attitude may work in normal, it will definitely not work in heroic.
LFRers will probably have issues with heroic mobs.

And LFRers WILL come screaming to the forums demanding nerfs to normal and heroic.

[Luuba-myzrael]

@Annastasi-proudmoore

the queue crowd is not up for any level of difficulty.

An item level requirement alone should effectively address the issue of players entering raids underprepared.

When you think about it, what’s really the difference between queueing for a raid and applying for one in the group finder? In most cases, the raid leader is just checking two factors: your item level and, if they’re more thorough, your past experience from the previous season.

To streamline this process and eliminate the need for raid leaders to manually check, we could implement an automated system that evaluates players based on clear, in-game criteria:

1. Boss Kills as a Prerequisite: To ensure players have the necessary experience, the game could require players to defeat certain bosses a specific number of times in easier content, like LFR (Looking for Raid). For example, before queueing for Normal mode, the system could require the player to kill a boss from LFR’s first wing several times.
2. Item Level and Boss Experience: Once the player has the required item level and proven they can defeat that boss, they would then be eligible to queue for Normal mode raids. This ensures that players are not only geared but also familiar with the basic mechanics of key encounters.

This is a fair system that balances accessibility with competency, and it addresses concerns about players being underqualified without having to rely on a raid leader’s personal judgment.

For those who argue that the queue system attracts “bad” players, this claim can be easily countered. Whether you’re using the group finder or a queue system, both are primarily assessing the same two things: item level and experience. The only difference is that the queue automates the process, ensuring fairness and removing the hassle of manual group setup.

By setting clear requirements, like boss kills and item level, the game itself ensures that players are ready for the content, making raiding more accessible without compromising quality.

@Tridiak-barthilas

There will be no determination stacks in normal or heroic.

I would easily accept this, if this passed. But like most mentioned, i think it is fair to ask Normal mode first to be on que.

This would be a good step forward and bring more players into the raiding culture.

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

@Luuba-myzrael

An item level requirement alone should effectively address the issue of players entering raids underprepared.

Lol no? We have people complaining about m0s.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Luuba-myzrael

When you think about it, what’s really the difference between queueing for a raid and applying for one in the group finder?

I get to pick which classes/specs I want instead of having 14 hunters

[Luuba-myzrael]

@Fauxstrasza-stormrage

Lol no? We have people complaining about m0s.

They hold no voice. I have not taken anyone below 588 on day 1/

I have not taken anyone below 595 after day 1.

My group my decision.

The que system can easily be agreed once Blizzard decides this where they begin. I am not going to argue with them on that.

If for normal they decide a certain ilevel and allow me to play. I will gladly accept it, those who want to cry will only be left behind.

I am 100% most who want Normal on que will gladly accept this as well.

@Grizzle-eredar

I get to pick which classes/specs I want instead of having 14 hunters

Sure no need to que Normal mode than. This is for players who do not care about min maxing.

[Chymmee-tichondrius]

@Luuba-myzrael

An item level requirement alone should effectively address the issue of players entering raids underprepared.

It doesn’t prepare them for LFR so why would it prepare them for harder content with actual mechanics?

iLevel is a useless vetting stat since you can get high enough doing derp content.

[Sakirion-sargeras]

Try tanking, you’ll get invited. Dps are a dime a dozen.

[Lemonbrew-moon-guard]

@Luuba-myzrael

I would easily accept this, if this passed. But like most mentioned, i think it is fair to ask Normal mode first to be on que.

This would be a good step forward and bring more players into the raiding culture.

I don’t think it brings players into raiding culture. I think it brings Normal raids into LFR culture. Meaning it will be tuned for completion rate first and foremost.

[Luuba-myzrael]

All this is just a suggestion. We can add another layer of protection, that player need to kill LFR before queuing Normal.

Now if Blizzard really wants to give us this option but is hesitant.

I would go a step further and even suggest that players who want to use the normal mode in que.

Need to kill a boss 3 times before using the LFR option for normal.

Now this is a bit strict but this guarantees that a player will understand certain mechanics.

Short term this will hurt me.

But in the long term if this guarantees me a spot in normal mode, i will invest the 3 weeeks.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Luuba-myzrael

Sure no need to que Normal mode than. This is for players who do not care about min maxing.

LFR is right there.

@Luuba-myzrael

They hold no voice. I have not taken anyone below 588 on day 1/

I have not taken anyone below 595 after day 1.

My group my decision.

And you still complained about their performance and M0s in general. You yourself are proof that ilvl requirement isn’t going to effectively address the issue

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Lemonbrew-moon-guard

I think it brings Normal raids into LFR culture.

I agree, And I think bringing more things into LFR culture is one of the worst things we could do to the game.

LFR has already done it’s damage, let’s not compound that.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Luuba-myzrael

i am not willing to spend an entire day on this

If there’s not enough players for you to just pick the first X number you need and go, it doesn’t sound like there’s enough demand to make this worth it.

[Luuba-myzrael]

My suggestion is more people like me who are focused on keys to be easily access raiding.

I am not sitting 30 min to form a group and manually check who is qualified and who is not.

If an addon can do that, then blizzards internal system can that and stream line the process for me and add it for a que system.

[Crudlord-tichondrius]

Not surprised nobody wants to invite you.

HA