This is a not an example of cooperation and compromise.
Pessimism should be left for Blizzard with reason. These players are just the product of Blizzard and those issues Blizzard has made.
If you really want something that you are suggesting, you need to start to build that bridge and try to meet people.
If you yourself can’t compromise, then you are then part of that problem, not the #nochange’ers.
This is another argument. A “solid core of players”
No it’s not. Not for a big company like blizzard. The amount of players you’re talking about would put the game on life support.
comments that cannot be empirically verified.
The only problem layering would create is in the minds of anyone who thinks that there was no inflation in WoW, or even something that resembled an functional economy ever existed, during vanilla.
After 2 years of vanilla the items on the AH were already devalued because of the quantities that ended up there. Everyone just bought the cheap mats to raise professions on alts because of their abundance.
layers have zero impact on anything.
when they remove layers realms are still overpopulated with 10’s of thousand more players than a vanilla realm.
that could go 1 of 2 ways, super queues and server transfers that destroy communities, or megarealms with 10’s of thousands of players in the same world not spread out like you imagine
either way is disaster, the 3rd and best optiion at this point is to keep layers indefinitely.
Not at all. Changes to the game have an impact, but it’s usually very small. We don’t get from vanilla to retail with a single patch or even expansion. It’s a death by a thousand cuts.
I don’t know what the “core game” means to you exactly. That’s a bloated ambiguous term. Don’t assume I know what you mean when you say that.
Balancing Classic isn’t necessary. It’s already balanced. As a druid, I can confirm; it’s balanced.
They did complete revamps to many of the talent trees. Those were some pretty big changes relatively speaking that made a pretty big impact on the meta. That’s definitely changing the core game.
Like Barbershops.
I mean, is so wrong to want to customize your hair or face or body in an rpg? 
inbefore “is it so wrong to have cross realms and either” missing the point that barbershops don’t have any negatives, any real negatives that would lead to BFA, unlike cross realm, sharding, tmogs, heirlooms, etc… unless you count player character customization which… No, character customization isn’t bad, unless your all happy with just playing clones of Thralls, Slyvanas, Arthas, Malfurions and so forth.
I’m open to compromise, show me where they are?
All I’ve seen are stereotyping, insults and hashtag spamming and chicken little rhetoric over why there can be no compromise. It’s easy to take the high road when you’re not being insulted constantly.
Probably not but that’s a moot point. I’m not asking them to cater to me. I’m just asking them to keep their promise and not make changes.
And by the way, they’re not going to go the Classic+ route either way. There’s too much demand for BC and WotLK. If there’s more Classic I promise it’ll go in that direction. They just need to make sure those are separate servers.
Let me pot in cat form please.
As a person who is in agreement with you for some changes, I’ve rarely had to get in the mud with someone because of a heated argument.
If you find yourself in constant arguments than conversation, you might be being absolute and refusing to look for routes.
Learn to know when to hold’em and when to fold’em.
Not really, I’ve debunked many chicken little arguments and there’s no compromise.
Again waiting for you to show me proof that such a thing can be accomplished, this thread isn’t looking good for that line of thought.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
I get where you’re coming from saying that Blizz has already shown their willingness to diverge, but anyone who is still #nochanges is basically just trying to barricade against further changing the game. It’s just a banner to rally behind to tell people to cease and desist because they don’t want the changes.
On the inverse, anyone asking for changes is being kind of rude. These are players who haven’t had fun with WoW in years and they finally get something tangible to play with and people want to change it again? Of course they’re going to be a bit irrational about it. It’s kind of like coming into someone’s room, rough housing, kicking them off their game and basically saying ‘go kick dirt’ to them as they turn it into a frat house. Then the person gets another room setup just like the previous one with some variations and people come back and do the same exact thing. They already had it happen once and they know what happens if you just let the jerks come in and ruin the room.
As far as asking for changes goes, the only compromise where everyone wins is having a version of classic that remains in a static state permanently and then having another version for everything else. There is no other way. The many, MANY discussions that happened even before the game came out have already reached that forgone conclusion and are tired of hearing it over and over again.
Also being pro museum piece doesn’t mean you’re #nochanges, it just means you want there to be a version of WoW as close to Vanilla as possible to exist into the future. It’s not directly in conflict with wanting changes at all.
At the end of the day, current Blizzard is NOT old Blizzard and Classic was never going to be Vanilla, but arrogantly saying that the game NEEDS changes is asking to be ridiculed and it would be well deserved. Beyond that, everyone is entitled to their opinion and to have a discussion just like people are entitled to crying out #nochanges as a catch all to any ‘legitimate debate’.
1.8 was when things went wrong with AV. 1.5-1.7 are the good versions. And choosing 1.12 for Classic was the wrong choice. But you can’t say it’s against #nochanges, because it’s still authentic Vanilla.
At the end of the day Classic has been a resounding success in terms of authenticity. Moreso than I ever though it would be. I give great credit to the Classic devs. It would have been real easy to want to change this, tweak that, ‘improve’ this or remove that. But they didn’t. As far as gameplay goes…I can’t really think of any changes. They streamlined features that existed in Vanilla (auto-loot, flight path dismount).
As far as all these posts made asking for changes. This was inevitable. These are people who never wanted Classic, but got handed it for free so now they want to change it into something else. But that’s not what Classic is about. It’s meant to capture the Vanilla experience, and that’s it. I really wish these people would go ask for WoW 2, since that’s what they actually want. They just think it would be simpler to change Classic rather than make a whole new game. There’s truth in that, but it doesn’t change the fact that was never Classic’s purpose and to do such is to completely abandon why Classic was made in the first place.
exactly. lol
How do you not understand what core game means? They completely altered character development in retail, it’s not in any way that it existed in vanilla or classic. The changed the core character development of the game.
They completely altered the way that some classes play, they altered core gameplay for some classes.
It is not, in any way, a “bloated ambiguous term” unless you’re trying to argue that they made drastic changes to the core game in vanilla, which they never did.
They NEEDED to change some talent systems in vanilla. There were entire talent trees that were never used. Even in classic there are talent trees that are worthless. A “core” change would be eliminating talent trees like they did in retail, or completely removing hybrid specs like they did in retail. Removing large group raids, like they did in retail. Altering the zones to level with you so you don’t have to actually travel around the continents, like they did in retail. Changing dungeon layouts so that they can be completed faster, with les effort, like they did in retail.
You know exactly what I mean by “changing the core game”.
Change nothing, just add content. New dungeons, new BG’s, new raids, new zones, new quests. Nothing needs to actually be changed, just add to. They don’t need to overhaul classes, they don’t need to reduce difficulty, they don’t need catch up mechanics. Just add new things to do in a few years when most people have played through what is there.
Because stagnation WILL kill classic.
Yep. That’s exactly it.
Aside from a choice person or two, most of the #nochanges and in the other thread “playersaskingforchanges” there’s been quite a bit of conversation without trolling.
Again, if you find yourself running into a bunch of jerks (word substituted for obvious reasons), you’re the jerk.
Nochanges wants it removed
We want them as well
Does not mean they should add more if anything they should remove the changes that they have made
The only changes that merit any recognition are the ones asking it to be made more like vanilla not less like
The only changes that merit any recognition are the ones asking it to be made more like vanilla not less like #NOCHANGES
Most of the threads aren’t like this, the last one you and I were in had nochangers calling people trolls, idiots, morons etc. not once did I ever call anyone names. I think your logic is flawed when a certain group constantly starts up trouble.
Think we’re done here.